Your Top 5 At Middleweight?

[DeeMoney]

Yes, I agree. I recognize your point.

Not sure if this mitigates my point but . . . the topic at hand is 'great MWs' - SRR is 'old' for a good portion of the time he is a MW (including that premature retirement). His tenure at MW is filled with loses (and great comebacks) to various fighters, not just Fullmer.

Ar some level, if we judge SRR at MW, we are judging the "old" period of his career. Does that part of his career place him in the top MW five?

P.S. Hell who wants to argue against SRR? That's tough.

You are right, prime SRR was not at MW; his best years were at welter, and probably super welter had the division existed. And I agree your in a tough spot arguing against SRR (who is/was it around here who would always argue SRR isn't even top 15 AT P4P)?

I guess it depends on what you consider MW Robinson, do you count all his fights in the 150s toward his MW work? There was no super welter at the time, so maybe yes? If so, then I think he has enough body of work at MW, even if a lot of it is against mid level competition, to get a clear evaluation of him without having to look too deeply at his later years.

[Nash out]

1. Golovkin. Unbeaten, still at the top aged 40. Two wins over Canelo, and wide points victories over future HOF's Jacobs and Deryvyanchenko, as well as a KO victories over Murata, Macklin, and prime Curtis Stevens. Nash out.

[Willie Pep 229]

1. Golovkin. Unbeaten, still at the top aged 40. Two wins over Canelo, and wide points victories over future HOF's Jacobs and Deryvyanchenko, as well as a KO victories over Murata, Macklin, and prime Curtis Stevens. Nash out.

Damn it, for a hall of fame poster you can be a real pain in the butt.

I know Triple Gs fights with Canelo ended 0-1-1 so now I have no clue if I should believe Jacob's, Dery????, Murat or Maclkin.

What good is there in me reading your posts if I have to confirm every line. What fun is there in that.

Are the other statements true?

[Nash out]

Damn it, for a hall of fame poster you can be a real pain in the butt.

I know Triple Gs fights with Canelo ended 0-1-1 so now I have no clue if I should believe Jacob's, Dery????, Murat or Maclkin.

What good is there in me reading your posts if I have to confirm every line. What fun is there in that.

Are the other statements true?

It's all part of the magic of the Great Nash. Constantly having people second guessing the real results after Nash states something matter of factly. Nash out.

[The Old LefHook]

Leave it to a pure neophyte who knows nothing and considers himself an expert, to dumbly choose Golovkin, who is one of the consummate cherry pickers of all time, who was afraid to make a move while he waited for Canelo. Still a good fighter, just not an ATG, not at all. His no. 2 almost has to be Canelo now, who gave Golovkin razor thin fights. Hagler and Robinson could still make his list, just don't hold your breath.

[mrbig1]

Good topic great debate. you guys have done your homework.

[The Old LefHook]

How many middleweights do I think would beat Golovkin? Plenty. He does not make the top 15 in my book. In no particular order.

1 Robinson
2 Monzon
3 Hagler
4 Greb
5 Fitzsimmons
6 Mickey Walker
7 Charley Burley
8 Holman Williams
9 Marcel Cerdan
10 Julian Jackson
11 Gerald McClellan
12 Freddie Steele
13 Body snatcher
14 Fullmer
15 Joey Giardello
16 Ketchel
17 LaMotta
18 Mike Gibbons

There are more.

[The Old LefHook]

And as far as Robinson vs Fullmer. Gene was a great fighter. He cheated constantly of course and always got away with it, because of the era, I suppose. The 200 or so rabbit punches he hit Robinson with without a single warning, were as illegal then as they are now.

A KO and a draw is about even with two squeaky close decisions, when a man is cheating flagrantly and often. Wilbur apparently doesn't think so. Two razor decision by a constant cheater, and a draw, trumps a picturesque KO and a draw, at least according to Wilbur. Say that out loud please, so you can hear yourself.

Say out loud, please, and also in writing again, that Fullmer is a greater middleweight than Walker Smith. Fullmer who would not have beaten LaMotta, and would not have beaten a single prime fighter on that list IMO. Which one of the 18 fighters I listed do you think Fullmer will whip? Very few if any. That means Robinson would beat very few if any, too, since he did not even make your list and Fullmer did.

You reason about as well as I expect from a ******* chump police defunder. Keep showing yourself. Remember, you started the *******/conservative stuff.

[Rockybigblower]

Now that's funny.

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[Ivich]

All fair - but does resume trump h2h when h2h is actually avaiable? (Which of course is often not available.)

As you say, to each his own. I'm not good at lists anyway.

Robinson drew with Fullmer and ko'd him, both times Ray was past his prime I find it entirely reasonable to expect a prime Robinson to beat Fullmer . It's not just WHO YOU BEAT,it's often WHEN YOU BEAT THEM!