Young Dempsey hits the bag

[them_apples]

Never seen this one before, only his older past prime footage

[I just smoked a joint when watching this ] I noticed boxers today ruined their training routines because of the media. they know they are being watched while they train now, they no longer are training with purpose but rather to look good for the camera. You see all these new ****** training techniques when in reality you should be in the ring working. The most casual observer thinks boxing has somehow improved in quality today. They see how polished up and flashy the training sessions are now with these rediculous padwork routines while dancing with a blind fold on. This seriously only started happening in the past 15-20 years. I make this observation because the way the old guys trained seems very workman like, but when they fight - they are good and very comfortable or "seasoned" [ /I just smoked a joint when watching this]

[QueensburyRules]

- -Need to point out that fighters preening for press publicity is nothing new.

As a teen I saw Ali training for both Big Cat Williams and Terrell in Astro Hall.

I knew what perfunctory boxing training was and they both went through light paces that me as an untrained teen could've done, but keep in mind this just days before the fight when light workouts are just coasting sharpeners.

Ali wouldn't even do that, mainly clowning, spouting poetry, shadow boxing with shuffles galore when not laying on the ropes in sparring. We don't see the hard footage because that would give clues as to fighter fight plans.

[them_apples]

- -Need to point out that fighters preening for press publicity is nothing new.

As a teen I saw Ali training for both Big Cat Williams and Terrell in Astro Hall.

I knew what perfunctory boxing training was and they both went through light paces that me as an untrained teen could've done, but keep in mind this just days before the fight when light workouts are just coasting sharpeners.

Ali wouldn't even do that, mainly clowning, spouting poetry, shadow boxing with shuffles galore when not laying on the ropes in sparring. We don't see the hard footage because that would give clues as to fighter fight plans.

yeah but I could walk into any boxing gym today and the first thing you are gonna see is fighters and trainers alike emulating what they see on Tv. training in a manner of imitation and not understanding. It goes for the coaches too. Boxing is like an apprenticeship program, its so unregulated where all the info comes from. its not like they all went to boxing school.

[QueensburyRules]

yeah but I could walk into any boxing gym today and the first thing you are gonna see is fighters and trainers alike emulating what they see on Tv. training in a manner of imitation and not understanding. It goes for the coaches too. Boxing is like an apprenticeship program, its so unregulated where all the info comes from. its not like they all went to boxing school.

- -Maybe you don't understand the purpose of the mitts. It's a more highly developed ritual than stomach crunches, rope skipping and most especially long distance running that can lead to injurious fight promotions.

The rituals imprint specific combinations and defensive moves used for the fight plan. I'd go even further in this 12 rd era: You could get fighter in conditioning/strength shape using no more than a 6 day a week alternating weight station programs with a 1 day rest on Sundays and a stationary bike. Of course you still need sparring, but some trainers are too careless in how they allow their fighters to spar, but all that would be the most important part of the training and dependent on the style, power, and speed of the opponent.

I got that Jack was just playing around for cameras in your vid, not some old school training.

[Willie Pep 229]

Important question - when did the cloth peak hat replace the straw hat - or was one summer wear and the other for colder weather?

Take a look at photos from the Willard fight (July 1919) in 100 degree Ohio, everyone, and I mean everyone, is wearing the damn straw hat.

In this video if a young Dempsey is out on an ocean liner than it must be late 1921 or early 1922.

Styles don't change that fast so I guess it is a weather thing.

I wish fashion designers would have brought back men's hats as a style. (Damn gay boys, you can't depend on them to do the right thing.)

[QueensburyRules]

Important question - when did the cloth peak hat replace the straw hat - or was one summer wear and the other for colder weather?

Take a look at photos from the Willard fight (July 1919) in 100 degree Ohio, everyone, and I mean everyone, is wearing the damn straw hat.

In this video if a young Dempsey is out on an ocean liner than it must be late 1921 or early 1922.

Styles don't change that fast so I guess it is a weather thing.

I wish fashion designers would have brought back men's hats as a style. (Damn gay boys, you can't depend on them to do the right thing.)

- -Pep, straw hats only big under summer conditions for obvious reasons. You'd be the biggest cornball in town if you showed up in one during the off season.

[them_apples]

- -Maybe you don't understand the purpose of the mitts. It's a more highly developed ritual than stomach crunches, rope skipping and most especially long distance running that can lead to injurious fight promotions.

The rituals imprint specific combinations and defensive moves used for the fight plan. I'd go even further in this 12 rd era: You could get fighter in conditioning/strength shape using no more than a 6 day a week alternating weight station programs with a 1 day rest on Sundays and a stationary bike. Of course you still need sparring, but some trainers are too careless in how they allow their fighters to spar, but all that would be the most important part of the training and dependent on the style, power, and speed of the opponent.

I got that Jack was just playing around for cameras in your vid, not some old school training.

I do understand the pad work routines, I just don't think its as useful as people think. You can tell when a fighter is born and raised on the pads, pulls all their shots, doesn't follow through properly, is generally very stiff. I think Floyds idea of using it for mental memorization is actually the best idea ive heard yet. Other wise it should just be coaches tool to work with a fighter, not some 12 round sprint that they use to replace sparring.

also never understood tiny speed bags, you have to compromise your form to keep up with it. The whole point of a speed bag was something that developes your arms while forcing you to stay relaxed (You have to, to keep rythm). They used to teach fighters how to punch by using a speed bag, or hitting a piece of paper (pop the bag or tear the paper).

s many dumb things that look cool and do nothing.

[billeau2]

I do understand the pad work routines, I just don't think its as useful as people think. You can tell when a fighter is born and raised on the pads, pulls all their shots, doesn't follow through properly, is generally very stiff. I think Floyds idea of using it for mental memorization is actually the best idea ive heard yet. Other wise it should just be coaches tool to work with a fighter, not some 12 round sprint that they use to replace sparring.

also never understood tiny speed bags, you have to compromise your form to keep up with it. The whole point of a speed bag was something that developes your arms while forcing you to stay relaxed (You have to, to keep rythm). They used to teach fighters how to punch by using a speed bag, or hitting a piece of paper (pop the bag or tear the paper).

s many dumb things that look cool and do nothing.

people seldom look and question set routines... Its worse in the martial arts! For years I have had my students take a burlap Indian rice bag, fill it up with dried beans, and duct tape it round and round until you get a small bag to hit. We use this bag because it develops the hand, it has the same dynamics of give, as a target on a human being, and because you can hit it properly and get automatic feedback. But so many people depend on the heavybag for this quality. The heavybag does not have the same surface area and does not develop the hands properly.

[them_apples]

people seldom look and question set routines... Its worse in the martial arts! For years I have had my students take a burlap Indian rice bag, fill it up with dried beans, and duct tape it round and round until you get a small bag to hit. We use this bag because it develops the hand, it has the same dynamics of give, as a target on a human being, and because you can hit it properly and get automatic feedback. But so many people depend on the heavybag for this quality. The heavybag does not have the same surface area and does not develop the hands properly.

Totally. The old canvas bags were better since they absorbed a punch like a human body. Fighters used to (dig) and a canvas sawdust bag was one of the best ways since it had a bit of give. The leather bags the punches just bounce off, and light “taps” seem harder than they really are.

[QueensburyRules]

Totally. The old canvas bags were better since they absorbed a punch like a human body. Fighters used to (dig) and a canvas sawdust bag was one of the best ways since it had a bit of give. The leather bags the punches just bounce off, and light “taps” seem harder than they really are.

- -They still have canvas bags and I have one on it's umpteenth repair with new canvases I stitched together. Also made a small bag compressing ancient feather pillows from my childhood into a canvas shopping bag on it's umpteenth bag repair much easier because a bought a couple dozen bags.

Always thought most of the slick heavy bags were fiber reinforced plastic. Leather must be for the sniffy high end popcorn punchers, yes?