How have Heavyweights grown in size?

[them_apples]

When the Cruiserweight division was added, it basically took all those "smaller" heavies and put them in a new weight class. Light heavyweight's aren't even allowed to make heavyweight unless they get fat or do PEDS (correct me if I am wrong).

So that leaves the heavyweight division, the only fighters in this division are the heaviest men around. This includes a large proportion of fat, even obese men - or those who are simply not built for boxing at all - body builders. we can't possibly say a guy like Ruiz or Chisora are actually bigger heavyweights as a result of genetics, these guys are clearly carrying way too much mass and may be the reason they are even heavyweights in the first place. Ruiz is barely 6 ft tall.

We know that these men always existed. Carnera, Willard, Simon, Buddy Baer etc. these guys were all 240-270 in weight and 6 ft 4 - 6 ft 7 in height.

The only difference is now these guys are in a separate weight class. For a smaller man to beat them they have to move up and make weight. Heavyweights didn't grow or get better. Ali would have schooled Fury more impressively than what Usyk pulled off.

[Kid Cauliflower]

When the Cruiserweight division was added, it basically took all those "smaller" heavies and put them in a new weight class. Light heavyweight's aren't even allowed to make heavyweight unless they get fat or do PEDS (correct me if I am wrong).

So that leaves the heavyweight division, the only fighters in this division are the heaviest men around. This includes a large proportion of fat, even obese men - or those who are simply not built for boxing at all - body builders. we can't possibly say a guy like Ruiz or Chisora are actually bigger heavyweights as a result of genetics, these guys are clearly carrying way too much mass and may be the reason they are even heavyweights in the first place. Ruiz is barely 6 ft tall.

We know that these men always existed. Carnera, Willard, Simon, Buddy Baer etc. these guys were all 240-270 in weight and 6 ft 4 - 6 ft 7 in height.

The only difference is now these guys are in a separate weight class. For a smaller man to beat them they have to move up and make weight. Heavyweights didn't grow or get better. Ali would have schooled Fury more impressively than what Usyk pulled off.

You're right about one thing--Ali would have schooled Fury and schooled him good. Fury would find himself kayoat.

[Banned]

A mix of technology keeping more body sizes alive and healthy now than ever and the continuous chopping up and dividing of weight divisions.


I think it's something like from 686bc-1910s there are either no weight divisions or weight divisions were informal and even then it's not until the 20s any of the bodies have any teeth.

Likewise from 686BC until the early 1900s time limits were also informal at best and even when the bodies start to formalize their rules they still take a few years to get some power.

During that entire time period no man weighing 265 pounds or more did very well. 220s are about the cap.

There are more 265ers than ever. The deficits that come with that size no longer matter in modern society, in the BC's it's an early death for sure all the way until abouts the early 1900s.

And so the chances of a quality 265er are higher these days. Given there are enough 265ers now the bodies make new divisions. This has been happening since the 80s.

What I am saying is people act like divisions and sizes are or ever were stagnant. The truth is they had from the 20s to the 60s before they started ****ing with things, That is one generation we've somehow made the poster child for the origin point in boxing. From 686 to now we went from average champions being 150 to 250. The progress was continuous the updates were not.




In a division that is say 190+ a man weighing 220 must have the power and strength to deal with 300ish fighters while still having the speed and reflexes to keep up with 190ish fighters. So it makes sense that during that time more 220-40s boxers shined than 270-300s or 190-210s. Because the gap for 190 to 300 is ****** but the middle can deal with both.

Really no matter how hard we try to fair it up boxing is always in a state of favoritism and the time limits plus size limits are part of that. It's reflected in most who does well under what rules.

[Kid Cauliflower]

Maybe divisions began with an effort to "legislate" more fairness and less danger within a still semi-pious society that commonly raised a call for boxing to be outlawed where it already wasn't. Or was it something else all along? You would probably know..

Is any of that true?

[Dr. Z]

You're right about one thing--Ali would have schooled Fury and schooled him good. Fury would find himself kayoat.

Well Ali at 35 really was gifted a points win Jimmy Young, and would likely have not beaten the Fury we saw in the ring in May 2024.

Besides heavyweights have gotten much bigger and those that are big ( over 6'4" tall ) were rare back pre 2000. Now they are garden variety.

Size matters.

Usky at 6'3' 223 and 78" reach is not a small man like the heavyweights pre 1990 were.

[them_apples]

Well Ali at 35 really was gifted a points win Jimmy Young, and would likely have not beaten the Fury we saw in the ring in May 2024.

Besides heavyweights have gotten much bigger and those that are big ( over 6'4" tall ) were rare back pre 2000. Now they are garden variety.

Size matters.

Usky at 6'3' 223 and 78" reach is not a small man like the heavyweights pre 1990 were.

Jimmy young isn’t a chump. Even the under trained worn out Ali is still to much for Fury. Jimmy young is too much for Usyk.

Usyk is natural at 200. And thats at his biggest. 223 is him BULKING. Anyone can bulk. This is why I used the Duran analogy - he hit 260. Usyk is not a huge heavy and wouldn’t stand out as big either. He’s **** on average, he’s not even big for the 1900s. 6 ft 3 and a 78 reach is nothing spectacular.

[them_apples]

Well Ali at 35 really was gifted a points win Jimmy Young, and would likely have not beaten the Fury we saw in the ring in May 2024.

Besides heavyweights have gotten much bigger and those that are big ( over 6'4" tall ) were rare back pre 2000. Now they are garden variety.

Size matters.

Usky at 6'3' 223 and 78" reach is not a small man like the heavyweights pre 1990 were.

Many other factors matter as well that overshadows just being bigger. Thats the issue.

[them_apples]

A mix of technology keeping more body sizes alive and healthy now than ever and the continuous chopping up and dividing of weight divisions.


I think it's something like from 686bc-1910s there are either no weight divisions or weight divisions were informal and even then it's not until the 20s any of the bodies have any teeth.

Likewise from 686BC until the early 1900s time limits were also informal at best and even when the bodies start to formalize their rules they still take a few years to get some power.

During that entire time period no man weighing 265 pounds or more did very well. 220s are about the cap.

There are more 265ers than ever. The deficits that come with that size no longer matter in modern society, in the BC's it's an early death for sure all the way until abouts the early 1900s.

And so the chances of a quality 265er are higher these days. Given there are enough 265ers now the bodies make new divisions. This has been happening since the 80s.

What I am saying is people act like divisions and sizes are or ever were stagnant. The truth is they had from the 20s to the 60s before they started ****ing with things, That is one generation we've somehow made the poster child for the origin point in boxing. From 686 to now we went from average champions being 150 to 250. The progress was continuous the updates were not.




In a division that is say 190+ a man weighing 220 must have the power and strength to deal with 300ish fighters while still having the speed and reflexes to keep up with 190ish fighters. So it makes sense that during that time more 220-40s boxers shined than 270-300s or 190-210s. Because the gap for 190 to 300 is ****** but the middle can deal with both.

Really no matter how hard we try to fair it up boxing is always in a state of favoritism and the time limits plus size limits are part of that. It's reflected in most who does well under what rules.

What about guys like Ruiz, Areolla, Fury

we have 6 ft, 6 ft 4 and 6 ft 8. All of them could drop anywhere from 50-80 lbs of fat. This can’t be modern training or advancement. I can’t think of a single fighter who looks like he’s got the benefit of modern advancement.

there are also a lot more taller but low muscle / slimmer builds. Men who are 6 ft 4 but with small fragile skulls and hands. A product of breeding height but neglecting other things. Just something I have noticed.

[BKM-]

Well Ali at 35 really was gifted a points win Jimmy Young, and would likely have not beaten the Fury we saw in the ring in May 2024.

Besides heavyweights have gotten much bigger and those that are big ( over 6'4" tall ) were rare back pre 2000. Now they are garden variety.

Size matters.

Usky at 6'3' 223 and 78" reach is not a small man like the heavyweights pre 1990 were.

I would say the 90s had a lot of xxl HW's, not that rare. Not all of them were good, but they started popping up every year.

[BKM-]

When the Cruiserweight division was added, it basically took all those "smaller" heavies and put them in a new weight class. Light heavyweight's aren't even allowed to make heavyweight unless they get fat or do PEDS (correct me if I am wrong).

So that leaves the heavyweight division, the only fighters in this division are the heaviest men around. This includes a large proportion of fat, even obese men - or those who are simply not built for boxing at all - body builders. we can't possibly say a guy like Ruiz or Chisora are actually bigger heavyweights as a result of genetics, these guys are clearly carrying way too much mass and may be the reason they are even heavyweights in the first place. Ruiz is barely 6 ft tall.

We know that these men always existed. Carnera, Willard, Simon, Buddy Baer etc. these guys were all 240-270 in weight and 6 ft 4 - 6 ft 7 in height.

The only difference is now these guys are in a separate weight class. For a smaller man to beat them they have to move up and make weight. Heavyweights didn't grow or get better. Ali would have schooled Fury more impressively than what Usyk pulled off.

Another day another Apples size obsession. I touched on this in the other thread before it got deleted. Usyk only represents HW's of the past who were around his size. You should keep hiding behind Ali, because Usyk did not represent the smaller HW's of the older era's.