Are fighters today far more cautious than they were in the past?

[DeeMoney]

I know there have always been defense first fighters (Pep, Locche, Etc) but in light of this past weekend I decided to post a question that I have believed to be true for a while: are fighters today far more cautious than they were in the past? Especially comparing the last 20 years to pre 1990s.

I figure there may be a lot of factors, not the least of which is the top fighters are paid more and don't need to put on action packed performances to get paid, and the fractured nature of the promotions has each of the top promotions protecting their star fighters (so they don't need to put up a good fight to keep being promoted as the cash cow). Also, the old mantra of "hit-and-don't-get-hit" seems to have devolved to "don't get hit and you can always claim you won."

Now this could just be recency bias playing out, in that maybe there were lots of fighters and fights like this in the past (we've all read of fights being stopped and called for inactivity). And we just don't know of these old fights, because whose going to want to remember them. Heck, even modern day big punchers (Tank, Wilder, Garcia) arent really all that high action. They just wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for the opportunity to land one big punch. And I like all those fighters, but it seems like they all devolved into that style.

So am I wrong in this assessment?

[max baer]

I know there have always been defense first fighters (Pep, Locche, Etc) but in light of this past weekend I decided to post a question that I have believed to be true for a while: are fighters today far more cautious than they were in the past? Especially comparing the last 20 years to pre 1990s.

I figure there may be a lot of factors, not the least of which is the top fighters are paid more and don't need to put on action packed performances to get paid, and the fractured nature of the promotions has each of the top promotions protecting their star fighters (so they don't need to put up a good fight to keep being promoted as the cash cow). Also, the old mantra of "hit-and-don't-get-hit" seems to have devolved to "don't get hit and you can always claim you won."

Now this could just be recency bias playing out, in that maybe there were lots of fighters and fights like this in the past (we've all read of fights being stopped and called for inactivity). And we just don't know of these old fights, because whose going to want to remember them. Heck, even modern day big punchers (Tank, Wilder, Garcia) arent really all that high action. They just wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for the opportunity to land one big punch. And I like all those fighters, but it seems like they all devolved into that style.

So am I wrong in this assessment?

I agree with what you wrote. I think that to earn the big money the boxers need to build an image like wwe wrestlers. They need to build a character and then their promoters sell that image and see how many people like it. Because the loss can stall so many deals and contracts the best thing for the promoters is to keep building the tension like they do in the wwe and I think that the promoters actually don't like the big nights where both fighters must win to keep that whole future deals money coming in.
In the old days the fans just watched the guys fight and the fighters were happy with that and if they lost which they all did from time to time, they would move on to the next fight.
I blame it on pro wrestling. Pro boxing has followed pro wrestling.

[The D3vil]

Absolutely.

Boxing used to reward guys who mixed it up, even if they lost.

Post-Floyd, guys main aim is to protect the "0", so not taking to many risks in the ring & business-wise is in.

[The D3vil]

I agree with what you wrote. I think that to earn the big money the boxers need to build an image like wwe wrestlers. They need to build a character and then their promoters sell that image and see how many people like it. Because the loss can stall so many deals and contracts the best thing for the promoters is to keep building the tension like they do in the wwe and I think that the promoters actually don't like the big nights where both fighters must win to keep that whole future deals money coming in.
In the old days the fans just watched the guys fight and the fighters were happy with that and if they lost which they all did from time to time, they would move on to the next fight.
I blame it on pro wrestling. Pro boxing has followed pro wrestling.

Pro-Wrestling has always been around.

Plus, UFC is more like WWE than boxing is. Hell, UFC & WWE are even owned by the same company.

It hasn't stopped them from giving fans the fights they want.

[Anomalocaris]

Absolutely.

Boxing used to reward guys who mixed it up, even if they lost.

Post-Floyd, guys main aim is to protect the "0", so not taking to many risks in the ring & business-wise is in.

In the 80's Tommy was hated for losing those superfights. His icing of Cuevas and Duran and masterclass against Benitez (with a broken hand) were totally ignored.

[solidman]

Pro-Wrestling has always been around.

Plus, UFC is more like WWE than boxing is. Hell, UFC & WWE are even owned by the same company.

It hasn't stopped them from giving fans the fights they want.

Who is that woman in the picture?

[Marchegiano]

Your resume can consistent of nothing but past prime and no hopers and you can still be considered the greatest in the past 30 years

The other lads use this term SOS, strength of schedule, but only when it's against Floyd.

I dunno man, I think for me Larry Holmes seems to mark the beginning of the protection era. If the fans love you they will protect you from the past's criticisms. If they don't, they'll hold you to them like they have any principles.


No one even cares about defenses anymore. Used to be you didn't even get a belt until after you made a D to prove you didn't just get lucky. Now, touch a title, full credit.


If you protect Larry from uni criticism then you can't blame kids for thinking all they need is a strap, claim to lineal, and better resume than other active fighters to be considered in Louis's league.

Protect Lennox from defense criticism and you can't be shocked the kids don't care about making defenses. As long as you beat a handful of names that used to be relevant you'll be in Louis's league

Protect Lennox and Larry from the importance of a reigning singular champion and you can't be shocked when the kids don't put too much effort into keeping their titles because they do not need them to be included in Louis's league.



Povetkin spent the majority of his career as a top ten HW avoiding title contention. Fighting top ranked fighters after they lost to the champion. Who cares if you actually have resume or not as long as you get those names Ring mentions. Can't hardly blame the kids for avoiding when you praise guys like Pov for not avoiding despite an entire career built around avoiding. Dude wasn't even a belt holder and still gets praised for a resume that is leftovers of a guy known for a weak resume. Good enough to sometimes get in the Louis league though. Believe it or not I have, more than once, seen fans claim Pov>Lang. Sin against Apollo as it is and all! Yes'sirs, what hand wrought this deed? Those of you who excuse this piss ant hiding in corner as something brave and admirable.


Protect Wlad from weak resume criticisms, pretend like Wlad once made a vol ever, act like Ring didn't overnight ratings after Wlad's mandos were announced, and make Wlad be lineal based on some nonsense whose only precedence is it didn't work but let's try again with the better brother though, and tell people but there was no one around doe; you can't be shocked when kids do just enough to give the illusion of dominance. He too gets put in the same category and league as Joe Louis.




Just saying, y'all have no principles to speak of and will excuse anything you claim makes a great one in order to list a name you think you can't do without. Promise, I actually like Pov, but in the context of Louis **** that jamook. I like everyone I named and can list heaps not as good as them, but the point is you list them on lists with Louis and Ali. If Wlad, Larry, Lennox, ****ing Vitali, Fury FFS, can get listed along Louis then TF these kids need to prove?

Need?

Must do?

**** all anything specific?


Nah dog, we deep in the age of logical fallacy and you gotta believe me ... from men whose stated job is to manipulate you out of money.




Who started the weight divisions? Fighters did. Too many weight divisions? Don't you dare blame muh fighters doe

Who started sanctioning bodies? Fighters did. Too many bodies? Don't dare blame fighters.

Who started belts? fighters did that too. Too many belts? Don't you blame fighters!

Who started mandos? fighters. Too many mandos? You best quit blaming dem fighters!



Getting a true as **** criticism to stick to a modern fighter is MORE difficult than stretching an illusionary criticism over men who have nothing to prove.

If I say Rocky Marciano ducked Patty, I'll get some who agree.

If I say Greb was a racist, I'll get some who agree.

If I say the WBA made the super/regular because Lennox Lewis pressured them to, I am met with blind denial from people who didn't even bother to check let alone simply remember.





You can't blame the kids for not doing as much when you ****s ask so very little and protect so much. Rocky Marciano should be harder to criticize than Larry ****ing Holmes bro. Duh. The fact that some of you read that line and want to jump to Lar's protection is my proof. That should not be, it only is because you lack principle.

[Willie Pep 229]

Conner Benn . . . fighters are so focused on protecting their unbeaten records that they won’t take any chances. Fans believe that these three want the millions being given to them by Turki, but aren’t interested in fighting.

[DeeMoney]

Fwiw, I meant more cautious with their 'in ring fighting style', as opposed to them fighting tougher

[QueensburyRules]

In the 80's Tommy was hated for losing those superfights. His icing of Cuevas and Duran and masterclass against Benitez (with a broken hand) were totally ignored.

- - Hearns was never hated save in the early build up of his career with a Tommy Gun Hit Man moniker while black neighborhoods were being over run with cra ck gangs.

I couldn't stand him for a long time until he and his career matured. Just the opposite for Ray after he became a miserable opportunist and ducker.