Fact or Fiction: If Mosley doesn't win the to DLH fights

[SCtrojansbaby]

If Mosley doesn't win the to DLH fights he no chance he makes the Hall of Famer.

Assume every part of his career goes exactly the same way except the judges give Oscar both decisions(which could have easily happend).

[Jack Napier]

those are his 2 biggest wins
take them away and Shane loses clout
he really lost to Oscar in the rematch anyway

[Wild Blue Yonda]

those are his 2 biggest wins
take them away and Shane loses clout
he really lost to Oscar in the rematch anyway

He certainly did.

[bojangles1987]

You can't give Oscar the first fight unless you can't score a fight.

[IMDAZED]

Well at the very least, he did win that first fight convincingly. Can't really take that away from him, which this thread is trying to do. But let's say you take that away, he'd still be on the cusp. You'd still have an established lightweight champ who was ranked among the world's best, moving up and beating the #1 welter (Margarito) at the peak of his career. Throw in some secondary wins and you have a very strong case.

[joseph5620]

Well at the very least, he did win that first fight convincingly. Can't really take that away from him, which this thread is trying to do. But let's say you take that away, he'd still be on the cusp. You'd still have an established lightweight champ who was ranked among the world's best, moving up and beating the #1 welter (Margarito) at the peak of his career. Throw in some secondary wins and you have a very strong case.

Exactly....

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Well at the very least, he did win that first fight convincingly. Can't really take that away from him, which this thread is trying to do. But let's say you take that away, he'd still be on the cusp. You'd still have an established lightweight champ who was ranked among the world's best, moving up and beating the #1 welter (Margarito) at the peak of his career. Throw in some secondary wins and you have a very strong case.

Honestly, I disagree. He was never an established Lightweight Champ --- he was an exciting belt-holder at the weight, & he never progressed beyond that point at 135. There was a hypothetical case for him being the best at the weight during his heyday, but that isn't going to get you into the HOF. There's a reason he wasn't that well-known prior to beating De La Hoya in 2000, despite being a 29-year-old pro of seven or eight years' experience. In another thread, we have people questioning Michael Moorer at Light-Heavyweight, because he looked like a beast but fought underwhelming opposition. It ain't much different for Mosley at 135. Looked great, fought less-than-stellar opposition.

He did win the first fight with De La Hoya, no question, & it was a great win over a certain HOFer at the peak of his career (more or less). He was also the first man to legitimately beat De La Hoya, & the only one to do so while De La Hoya was arguably in his pomp.

Still, for his profile within the sport, he's surprisingly thin on the ground with resume. As stated, I do not see any respectable case for his LW days contributing, realistically, to a HOF nomination. After that, between 1999 & now, you have two excellent wins --- De La Hoya (2000) & Margarito (2009). He has admitted to knowingly cheating for at least the return fight with De La Hoya, which he plainly lost as I saw it anyway, but even if you had him nicking it, there's no real way you can count that in his favour, given the BALCO debacle.

The rest of his competition is of a high standard, but it's almost all loss, loss, loss. Forrest twice (convincingly at least once), Cotto, Mayweather (convincingly), mixed in with victories over Mayorga & Vargas, neither of whom were A-level. He did have a resurgent win over Margarito, & credit to him for that.

Really, is he a HOFer? I think he will get in, but I hardly see him as anything approaching a sure bet (on his merits, that is --- I have no doubt name-recognition alone will see him through).

[IMDAZED]

Honestly, I disagree. He was never an established Lightweight Champ --- he was an exciting belt-holder at the weight, & he never progressed beyond that point at 135. There was a hypothetical case for him being the best at the weight during his heyday, but that isn't going to get you into the HOF. There's a reason he wasn't that well-known prior to beating De La Hoya in 2000, despite being a 29-year-old pro of seven or eight years' experience. In another thread, we have people questioning Michael Moorer at Light-Heavyweight, because he looked like a beast but fought underwhelming opposition. It ain't much different for Mosley at 135. Looked great, fought less-than-stellar opposition.

He did win the first fight with De La Hoya, no question, & it was a great win over a certain HOFer at the peak of his career (more or less). He was also the first man to legitimately beat De La Hoya, & the only one to do so while De La Hoya was arguably in his pomp.

Still, for his profile within the sport, he's surprisingly thin on the ground with resume. As stated, I do not see any respectable case for his LW days contributing, realistically, to a HOF nomination. After that, between 1999 & now, you have two excellent wins --- De La Hoya (2000) & Margarito (2009). He has admitted to knowingly cheating for at least the return fight with De La Hoya, which he plainly lost as I saw it anyway, but even if you had him nicking it, there's no real way you can count that in his favour, given the BALCO debacle.

The rest of his competition is of a high standard, but it's almost all loss, loss, loss. Forrest twice (convincingly at least once), Cotto, Mayweather (convincingly), mixed in with victories over Mayorga & Vargas, neither of whom were A-level. He did have a resurgent win over Margarito, & credit to him for that.

Really, is he a HOFer? I think he will get in, but I hardly see him as anything approaching a sure bet (on his merits, that is --- I have no doubt name-recognition alone will see him through).

I don't disagree with anything you said. And I still think he'd have a good case without the Oscar win. How many fighters win titles at 135 and 147 who don't have a good case?

[RubenSonny]

Though Mosley lightweight resume isn't amazing, I still think its clearly greater than Moorers light heavyweight resume. He fought a few ranked guys, which is something Moorer never did.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I don't disagree with anything you said. And I still think he'd have a good case without the Oscar win. How many fighters win titles at 135 and 147 who don't have a good case?

I cant see it, being honest. He had a paper title at LW where he looked amazing but fought next to nobody. If you did take away that fine first win over De La Hoya, he has nothing beyond a gift in their rematch (while knowingly using PEDs) and a very good win over Margarito on which to base a HOF nomination on. Used-up iterations of Vargas and Mayorga are no match for defeats to all his best competition, especially when you consider three of those were absolute thrashings (Forrest I, Wright I, Mayweather). The only time he even got legitimately near to beating anyone else significant was Cotto (in a very good effort from a past-it Mosley).