History of the Heavyweights part 6 (Jack Johnson)

[smasher]

How can you rate Holmes above Joe Louis? The only thing Holmes has going for him is longevity as champion (title defenses) and Louis beats him in that category too. I am curious to read how you can possibly justify this.

Butterfly can't rate Louis any higher because Joe must have been a racist, only defending against 2 black fighters in 12 years.

[LondonRingRules]

=========There are boxing aficionados who put Jack Johnson above Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali in the all time list of heavyweight greats. The first black champion reigned for seven years, and it certainly would have been a lot longer had the likes of Jeffries and Burns not avoided meeting him for so long. As it was, Johnson had to wait until he was 30 to get his chance.===================================

** The rest of your article is equally littered with unsupported suppositions and misrepresentations. Did you write it yourself?

You assume Johnson would hold the title longer had he met Burns and Jeffries sooner. You're welcome to come up with your reasoning. Fact is that Johnson was busy losing to fringe contenders and novice fighters. Jeffries beat Griffin twice, knocking him out in one of Jeff's first fights. Johnson never could beat Griffin, losing to him once.

One of Jeff's earliest fights included a prime Choynski who Jeff held to a draw. A fading Choynski laid out Johnson cold. Johnson managed to overcome those losses and put together a 3 yr win streak, but then lost a title eliminator to Hart in a poor performance. He then preceded to lose his cool to an improving novice fighter, HOFer Jeannette, and lost by DQ. He lost his opportunity to fight for Jeff's vacant title with those losses.

Obviously Jeff met several of the top black contenders in his short career, so your comments regarding Jeff not fighting black fighters are also easily dismissed. Did you get your article from the introduction of A Great White Hope? Surely you must realize that was a fictionalized account of Johnson adapted for the stage.

[Mike Tyson77]

I dont care what you people say, Jack Johnson was of the greatest of all time. After he lost the belt, he didnt lose another fight for over a DECADE. He was still knocking people out when he was in his fiftys.

[butterfly1964]

Butterfly can't rate Louis any higher because Joe must have been a racist, only defending against 2 black fighters in 12 years.

well, now i have louis above johnson.

[LondonRingRules]

I dont care what you people say, Jack Johnson was of the greatest of all time. After he lost the belt, he didnt lose another fight for over a DECADE. He was still knocking people out when he was in his fiftys.

** When Johnson turned 50 he was KOed by Bearcat Wright and Bill Hartwell. He was KOed by a novice featherweight in his last fight at age 60. He was KOed plenty before those dates. Facts are than only NeonLeon has been KOed more of all the heavy champs.

[BBKing]

yeah, jack johnson was a beast. he is the first fighter chronologically to be on my top ten list. i have him seventh, under ali, liston, holmes, foreman, frazier, and tyson.

Liston number 2 all time but no Louis.

[butterfly1964]

Liston number 2 all time but no Louis.

louis is number seven on my list.

[Kid Achilles]

Again I ask, explain to me why Holmes was a better champion. Why does he deserve to be ranked above Louis when both men fought during weak eras and yet Louis was more dominant over his own era and held on to the belt longer.

[butterfly1964]

Again I ask, explain to me why Holmes was a better champion. Why does he deserve to be ranked above Louis when both men fought during weak eras and yet Louis was more dominant over his own era and held on to the belt longer.

because if they actually fougght each other, then holmes would win.

[Yogi]

because if they actually fougght each other, then holmes would win.

A head-to-head ranking has to be about the studiest way of ranking fighters out there, and if you ask me it is nothing more than a simple copout to cover up a lack of knowledge (****, my wife can see two fighters and pick who she sees as the winner of a fantasy fight, and she rarely ever watches any of my fights...doesn't mean she has a clue as to who the "greater" fighter was though).

Personally, I think fighters should be ranked on what they actually did in the ring during their respective eras, not what they may or may not be able to do with others of different times.