Who do you think teh hardest hitter ever is P4P and at Heavyweight?

[AlexKid]

Only one choice and you have to justify it.

The boxer doesn't have to have any kind of skill, he could just be a freak of nature novice, it doesn't matter all that matters is power.


For me I choose Ernie Shavers, because every fighter that fought him said he hit the hardest including ones that also face Foreman. Also because of the amount of fighters that fought foreman and not shavers and said foreman hit them the hardest, it indirectly boosts shavers up evidence wise.

He burst a glove, his punches sounded very different. He was most likely to take you out in 1 single shot. He also had the biggest hips of any boxer modern or old.



P4P I choose Julian Jackson, most experts agree, his KO highlights and % speaks for itself, the way the power flowed through his body and then like a wave through the falling unconscious persons body, I was gonna say Randle Bailey since his punches were insane but they were more pushy and less concussive so I have deemed them weaker, also Nigel ben almost killed that guy that Julian did not but overall his punches look slightly less devastating compared to Julian's Hl reel same with Hearns.



So I choose

Ernie Shavers best in total (look at those thunder Bolts no one else does that not even Foreman)




Julian Jackson best p4p



Who do you choose and why? Please only 2 fighters, not a list, I want your best guess.

[AlexKid]

Also Ali said so, and he doesn't BS

[Elroy1]

Earnie Shavers demonstratably is a power puncher only when viewed against Cruiserweights.

As soon as we limit the sieve of competition to 215lbs (reinflated modern cruiser or a BIG HW back in Earnie's day) SUDDENLY, his power is non-existent!

Of course it's even worse since Shavers IS a borderline HW and so has no business at all p4p.

Without further question I think it's either Mike Tyson or David Haye.

In fact these 2 guys are the only 2 worth considering in reality.

Closest thing would be Tommy Morrison but at 226lbs he was not exactly small.

[Elroy1]

Also Ali said so, and he doesn't BS

- Ali is a prolific BSer

- Shavers FAILED to knock Ali down

- Other guys knocked Ali down yet Shavers didn't hence directly proving Ali a liar and Shaver a bum.

And why would Ali (and all the other guys who beat Shaver) want to pump up Shaver?

Because it increases the value of their own wins!

Obviously the truth, that they beat a total bum, doesn't serve their cause much does it.

Your agenda betrays yourself Alex.

[AlexKid]

- Ali is a prolific BSer

- Shavers FAILED to knock Ali down

- Other guys knocked Ali down yet Shavers didn't hence directly proving Ali a liar and Shaver a bum.

And why would Ali (and all the other guys who beat Shaver) want to pump up Shaver?

Because it increases the value of their own wins!

Obviously the truth, that they beat a total bum, doesn't serve their cause much does it.

Your agenda betrays yourself Alex.

he doesn't BS on things like that, he BS to hype up a fight or to get into an opponents head etc hes very honest when it comes to things like this


secondly what big men did earnie face? What do you base this on?

[Elroy1]

he doesn't BS on things like that, he BS to hype up a fight or to get into an opponents head etc hes very honest when it comes to things like this


secondly what big men did earnie face? What do you base this on?

Your second point is my own..

If you knock off all the bums and cruisers from Shaver's very extensive record, only 1 single opponent remains.. Chinny Ken Norton, an aborted version of Seth Mitchell from the 70's! And chinny featherfist Ali if you include that as a win realistically.

That is truly pathetic!

Your first point is romantic tripe.. "Ali was very honest when it came to things like that"...

How so? You are talking about one of the most disgraceful figures in the sport in reality.

How is he honest when nearly all of his statements can be straight up debunked.

[AlexKid]

Your second point is my own..

If you knock off all the bums and cruisers from Shaver's very extensive record, only 1 single opponent remains.. Chinny Ken Norton, an aborted version of Seth Mitchell from the 70's! And chinny featherfist Ali if you include that as a win realistically.

That is truly pathetic!

Your first point is romantic tripe.. "Ali was very honest when it came to things like that"...

How so? You are talking about one of the most disgraceful figures in the sport in reality.

How is he honest when nearly all of his statements can be straight up debunked.

Ah so your shavers cant KO really big guys is worthless/baseless since he never faced any.

You know as well as I do that he could, he just never got a chance to show it since the big guys wernt around at that time.

The Wlads, Prices, Fury's, Lennox's, Valuevs etc dont have esp strong chins. Infact most of them are downright fragile.

[Elroy1]

Ah so your shavers cant KO really big guys is worthless/baseless since he never faced any.

You know as well as I do that he could, he just never got a chance to show it since the big guys wernt around at that time.

The Wlads, Prices, Fury's, Lennox's, Valuevs etc dont have esp strong chins. Infact most of them are downright fragile.

Ok I'll address the 2nd part first. with the exception of Price which is horrific, all the others DEFINITELY have strong chins. It is ridiculous to posit that they don't.

Valuev in fact I would judge to have an iron chin even by the now standard and Wlad and Lennox atleast and maybe Fury too would have chins as hard as the hardest chins in Shavers era- Shaver's who is as we all know a glass jaw himself even by the THEN standard!

But let's look at it a different way. You just did for modern chins what I apparently did for historical power. You claimed these guys had poor chins by the superheavyweight standard when by and large they haven't really even FOUGHT any guys as weak AS Shaver's did!

HOWEVER- coming back the the first part now, I have a solution!

Shaver's may not have faced supers like today which by the way is very convenient for you, basically implying that whacking out midget bums is comparable to whacking out elite supers- but he DID fight plenty of guys of various weight ranges, many many of them well into the realm of what we would today call HW.

90+ fights is a great many unfortunately for a representative sample and once we break it down into groups by weight we see that Shaver's hits the 50%ile as we get to 215lbs. COMMON sense and extrapolation serves to show that if we were to consider his KO power against 230lbers (todays average opponent at HW) he would be very little punch threat- even assuming he could land anything on a modern boxer that is!

You are totally beaten on this issue, you backed a bum in this race and you paid the price..

You could have backed Mike Tyson who is..

- Black
- American
- Far enough in the past to be considered somewhat nostalgic

and so on..

So WHY would you need to turn to an obscure dude like Shaver who has been proven a forgery for decades now in light of real punchers that could ALSO fit your agenda.

I have never understood the nut bag promoting golden era mythology when there was a time they did have exceptional boxers like Mike Tyson! It's baffling!

[AlexKid]

Ok I'll address the 2nd part first. with the exception of Price which is horrific, all the others DEFINITELY have strong chins. It is ridiculous to posit that they don't.

Valuev in fact I would judge to have an iron chin even by the now standard and Wlad and Lennox atleast and maybe Fury too would have chins as hard as the hardest chins in Shavers era- Shaver's who is as we all know a glass jaw himself even by the THEN standard!

But let's look at it a different way. You just did for modern chins what I apparently did for historical power. You claimed these guys had poor chins by the superheavyweight standard when by and large they haven't really even FOUGHT any guys as weak AS Shaver's did!

HOWEVER- coming back the the first part now, I have a solution!

Shaver's may not have faced supers like today which by the way is very convenient for you, basically implying that whacking out midget bums is comparable to whacking out elite supers- but he DID fight plenty of guys of various weight ranges, many many of them well into the realm of what we would today call HW.

90+ fights is a great many unfortunately for a representative sample and once we break it down into groups by weight we see that Shaver's hits the 50%ile as we get to 215lbs. COMMON sense and extrapolation serves to show that if we were to consider his KO power against 230lbers (todays average opponent at HW) he would be very little punch threat- even assuming he could land anything on a modern boxer that is!

You are totally beaten on this issue, you backed a bum in this race and you paid the price..

You could have backed Mike Tyson who is..

- Black
- American
- Far enough in the past to be considered somewhat nostalgic

and so on..

So WHY would you need to turn to an obscure dude like Shaver who has been proven a forgery for decades now in light of real punchers that could ALSO fit your agenda.

I have never understood the nut bag promoting golden era mythology when there was a time they did have exceptional boxers like Mike Tyson! It's baffling!

problem is you can argue the toss forever, and never prove anything, it only works if both parties are willing to be sensible and take on new ideas, since you are such a silly boy, im gonna stop

[joemama]

Shavers is a safe bet!