Top 15 Light Heavyweights

[Rusty Tromboni]

The Flyweights didn't get any where near as much attention as the Heavyweights, let's see if the Light Heavyweights fair any better. I'll put one out there, but I am finding this really difficult to pull off w/ any satisfaction:

1) Tunney
2) Charles
3) Loughran
4) Conn
5) Spinks
6) Moore
7) Johnson
8) Gibbons
9) Langford
10) Rosenbloom
11) Foster
12) Qawi
13) Jones
14) Muhammad
15) Slattery


That's a tremendous list of "who's who". I dunno if it's any good. I feel like footage, dominance, and competition all matter. I criterion that means a lot to me is "advancement". How advanced a fighter was for his era: maybe Langford is primitive compared to Kovalev, but his being ahead of the curve/more advanced helps him the rankings.

It's also clear that just because fighters fight in a shared era that their skills are equally developed: Ezzard Charles was a peer of Willie Pep, but he was clearly not on that level... in fact, it's hard to find anyone since who has been Pep's equal.


The problems with these lists is that it feels fighters could swap positions based on different qualifications: Rosenbloom had better competition than Jones, but what footage do we have? Conn looks (slightly) better than Jones on film, but look at Jones' record above 160. For people who take issue with that record, what about Tunney's/Muhammad's... do record's/competition really tell us everything?

[Longhaul]

That’s a pretty good list 1-5 I couldn’t argue with.

[OctoberRed]

That’s a pretty good list 1-5 I couldn’t argue with.

Same...

[chrisJS]

Surely Greb has to be in the list? Multiple huge wins at the weight like Loughran multiple times, Tunney in dominating fashion and two highly controversial losses, Tommy Gibbons, Shade, Rosenbloom etc; etc; He defeated four of your top 10 guys for example.

175 is one of the greatest and deepest divisions so it's really difficult to narrow down to 10. Some guys like Greb fought there often barely a few lbs above middleweight whipping fully fledged 175 guys, guys like Bivins could/would have been certainly higher but chased the heavyweight bucks, I always felt Patterson would have been a certain top 5 had he not campaigned at 175, Jones probably had too weak of an era to rank as high as his talent, then you've got Conn who's signature wins perhaps mostly come at 160 and then left 175 very quickly into his reign, obviously an incredible fighter.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Gene Tunney
4. Harry Greb
5. Michael Spinks
6. Billy Conn
7. Tommy Loughran
8. Harold Johnson
9. Bob Foster
10. Tommy Gibbons
11. Jimmy Bivins
12. Roy Jones
13. John Henry Lewis
14. Matthew Saad Muhammad
15. Maxie Rosenbloom

Delaney, Qawi, Galindez, Marshall, Langford, Norfolk, Dillon all honorable mentions too. My favorite is Saad, perhaps I have him too low.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Most top 10 alltime lists are just a show of names.

Might be able to make a case for a top 3 or 5, but anything beyond that is a guessestimate.

In this list provided Roy and Archie are far too low.

[OctoberRed]

- -Most top 10 alltime lists are just a show of names.

Might be able to make a case for a top 3 or 5, but anything beyond that is a guessestimate..

Queensberry on point with this.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Surely Greb has to be in the list? Multiple huge wins at the weight like Loughran multiple times, Tunney in dominating fashion and two highly controversial losses, Tommy Gibbons, Shade, Rosenbloom etc; etc; He defeated four of your top 10 guys for example.

175 is one of the greatest and deepest divisions so it's really difficult to narrow down to 10. Some guys like Greb fought there often barely a few lbs above middleweight whipping fully fledged 175 guys, guys like Bivins could/would have been certainly higher but chased the heavyweight bucks, I always felt Patterson would have been a certain top 5 had he not campaigned at 175, Jones probably had too weak of an era to rank as high as his talent, then you've got Conn who's signature wins perhaps mostly come at 160 and then left 175 very quickly into his reign, obviously an incredible fighter.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Gene Tunney
4. Harry Greb
5. Michael Spinks
6. Billy Conn
7. Tommy Loughran
8. Harold Johnson
9. Bob Foster
10. Tommy Gibbons
11. Jimmy Bivins
12. Roy Jones
13. John Henry Lewis
14. Matthew Saad Muhammad
15. Maxie Rosenbloom

Delaney, Qawi, Galindez, Marshall, Langford, Norfolk, Dillon all honorable mentions too. My favorite is Saad, perhaps I have him too low.

I try not to rank fighters in more than one of the original eight. Sometimes that even means not ranking them at all.

But yeah, Greb could really be ranked #1 based on his record north of 160 pounds.

I like your list, but i am curious why you would rank Charles and Moore over Tunney.

Honestly, we only have footage of Tunney vs. Dempsey. But that guy wipes his ass w/ Charles and Moore. Conn is slightly better than them.

And going on records alone, I will take Loughran's over Charlers or Moore's.

Not picking on you. Just genuinely curious. I am little uncertain myself.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Most top 10 alltime lists are just a show of names.

Might be able to make a case for a top 3 or 5, but anything beyond that is a guessestimate.

In this list provided Roy and Archie are far too low.

I mean, i kinda agree. but you're the resident crank, so I don't wanna be seen agreeing with the psychotic old lady in her bathrobe and hair rollers, who reeks of alcohol at 7 AM. Especially in my own thread.

It is really hard to know. Would any of us really be shocked if we had a time machine and assembled all the meaningful fighters at 175, and Harold Johnson came out of top?


Don't get me wrong, footage and records tell a lot. But we also have plenty of evidence of upsets.

If you are picking Moore... show me the footage. Everyone I ranked above him looks better on film.

Jones fought hacks. Finally he got KO'd by Tarver. Tarver.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Arch entered into th most storied period of his career as a master magician. His style was never predicated to impress modern day silly boys, it was designed to lure a fighter into his trap where upon the trap was sprung.

No need to rehash your unfortunate Roy obsession.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Arch entered into th most storied period of his career as a master magician. His style was never predicated to impress modern day silly boys, it was designed to lure a fighter into his trap where upon the trap was sprung.

No need to rehash your unfortunate Roy obsession.

Again, nothing Loughran and Conn didn't do better, or faster.

Tunney would wipe his ass w/ Moore. Not even close.

Do you really see Moore beating Baer or Carnera? Let alone he never beat Greb, Tunney, or Slattery.

Do we really think Moore is a sure bet to beat the Bradock who fought baer and Louis.

I would pick that guy to at least last the distance against Marciano. and school Tarver.


Really, the story of Moore is a nice one. But so are those shows on Lifetime that you love so much,

Both unfortunately are only "based on real events". Whatever the **** that means.