rocky marciano vs bernard hopkins

[Thunder Lips]

"I own all three Charles/Walcott fights, both his fights with Louis and both of his fights against Marciano, so i know his style pretty well. Trust me, I'm not the type that posts about a fighter and never seen him fight before. You make some valid points, but i can't agree at all with Joe being as or even close to as cautious as Hopkins. Now, take the first Marciano/Walcott fight for example. Early in that fight, you see an aggressive Walcott that came out and traded with a big puncher and completely abandoning his defense. "

No offense but you could of fooled me. Trade? In that oh so brief moment of aggression where a surprised Marciano doesn't even get a chance to throw anything back let alone land anything significant.



Walcott/Marciano I Rounds 1-2

Again, the whole point is that Hopkins never faced a relentless offensive force like Marciano anyway.

"I also remember him being hit a lot in his first fight with Charles. Since when has Hopkins traded punches with a puncher and fought with him on the inside taking punches? "

Charles certainly got to Walcott more than most but it wasn't because of a lack of caution on his part. Ezzard Charles was just the faster slicker fighter for the most part; only Roy Jones can come close to that offensive wizardy in regards to Hopkins opposition. Again this is pointless hair splitting; there isn't a signifcant measurable difference between the level of caution employed by Hopkins and Walcott. Nitpicking rare moments of aggression from either fighter isn't going to change that.

Sure Walcott took more punishment over his career but again Marciano, Louis, and Charles aren't exactly Taylor, Calzaghe, and that has been my point. This is needlessly going in circles so I'm going to bail before I get sick.

"Even in his fights with Louis, Joe was hit quite a bit. I think you are letting his foot work( which was indeed one of the best) allow you to think that his defense was better than what it actually was. His knockout losses should not be overlooked."

Really? Until the miracle knockout one of history's most accurate punchers isn't exactly landing anything of note. Walcott's cautious approach in the first fight is what unfairly cost him the fight in the judge's eyes.



Louis/Walcott I



Louis/Walcott II

[slicksouthpaw16]

No offense but you could of fooled me. Trade? In that oh so brief moment of aggression where a surprised Marciano doesn't even get a chance to throw anything back let alone land anything significant.

I even posted it here, watch this version. Its shows Joe trading with Rocky in both the middle of the ring and on the ropes. The whole point is this is to show you that Joe was no where near as cautious as Hopkins was. Have you ever seen Hopkins in that kind of a fight where punches were being landed by both fighters? Even the referee in this video stated that Walcott was staggered in that second round.

Charles certainly got to Walcott more than most but it wasn't because of a lack of caution on his part. Ezzard Charles was just the faster slicker fighter for the most part; only Roy Jones can come close to that offensive wizardy in regards to Hopkins opposition.

I think Jones was landing much less than Charles was to be honest, and there were instances where Joe was even stunned. When Jones landed, Hopkins's defense showed because he wasn't even able to get full leverage on them to do any serious damage, and what convinces me is the fact that Hopkins didn't have a scratch on him and Roy is a big puncher, especially at middleweight where he knocked out almost everyone he fought.

Really? Until the miracle knockout one of history's most accurate punchers isn't exactly landing anything of note. Walcott's cautious approach in the first fight is what unfairly cost him the fight in the judge's eyes.



Louis/Walcott I



Louis/Walcott II

He wasn't trading as much with Louis but there were definitely some points where he was hit flush a few times. In one of the earlier rounds, i remember Louis landing a hard right off of the chin of Walcott when he was in his defensive shell on the ropes. Now can you name a pacific blow landed on Hopkins when he was in his prime?

[Thunder Lips]

[QUOTE=slicksouthpaw16;4742150]I even posted it here, watch this version. Its shows Joe trading with Rocky in both the middle of the ring and on the ropes. The whole point is this is to show you that Joe was no where near as cautious as Hopkins was. Have you ever seen Hopkins in that kind of a fight where punches were being landed by both fighters? Even the referee in this video stated that Walcott was staggered in that second round.

(Shakes Head)

No in these highlights Maricano isn't landing until Round 9. Walcott is moving and throwing punches to keep the relentless Marciano off of him but he's also clinching, countering, and making him miss. Of course when you Marciano pushing the fight there is going to be more action. The commentary also says, "Marciano was staggered." after he was dropped than "Marciano has been staggered time and time again" You Dope!


"I think Jones was landing much less than Charles was to be honest, and there were instances where Joe was even stunned. When Jones landed, Hopkins's defense showed because he wasn't even able to get full leverage on them to do any serious damage, and what convinces me is the fact that Hopkins didn't have a scratch on him and Roy is a big puncher, especially at middleweight where he knocked out almost everyone he fought. "

Are you comparing Roy and Charles' power? Do your homework.


"He wasn't trading as much with Louis but there were definitely some points where he was hit flush a few times. In one of the earlier rounds, i remember Louis landing a hard right off of the chin of Walcott when he was in his defensive shell on the ropes. Now can you name a pacific blow landed on Hopkins when he was in his prime?"

Taylor isn't exactly Joe Louis but eh....everyone gets hit. Doesn't make Hopkins or Walcott lesser defensive fighters.

[slicksouthpaw16]

(Shakes Head) No in these highlights Maricano isn't landing until Round 9. Walcott is moving and throwing punches to keep the relentless Marciano off of him but he's also clinching, countering, and making him miss. Of course when you Marciano pushing the fight there is going to be more action. The commentary also says, "Marciano was staggered." after he was dropped than "Marciano has been staggered time and time again" You Dope!

Once again, the video shows Walcott trading a lot throughout the fight. You can do a highlight video of the career of Hopkins and still wouldn't find him in that kind of fight. Also, you should start at 2:25 of that video. The commentator says ''Walcott was staggered but he came right back''.

Are you comparing Roy and Charles' power? Do your homework.

So i guess Jones didn't stop the durable long lasting light heavyweight champion Virgil Hill( with one right hand to the body), Glen Wolfe in one round ( who had fought to a close war with Toney shortly before his fight with Jones) and stopped world class champions like Woods, Griffin ect and drop Reggie Johnson multiple times( who had never been in that much trouble at any point in his career) and stagger John Ruiz at heavyweight? Jones can punch, and I'll even go so far as to say that Jones at middleweight punches as hard as any Charles, he definitely had a higher KO ratio.

Taylor isn't exactly Joe Louis but eh....everyone gets hit. Doesn't make Hopkins or Walcott lesser defensive fighters.

Hopkins not only didn't flinch after those punches but he also didn't have any type of bruise or scratch afterward. But thanks for finally answering one of my questions.





Joe was bruised in both of these fights, which again proves my point on who gets hit more. I rate Joe as an all time great fighter( check my past posts and threads on him) so don't think I'm showing disrespect by posting these pictures.

[TheGreatA]

Hopkins does trade punches with his opponents, although he rarely gets hit by them.


I believe round 10 was voted the round of the year by Ring Magazine.


He really opened up on Pavlik at times when Pavlik went on the defensive.

The only fight in which he truly refused to trade punches was the Calzaghe fight when he was outworked and lost a close decision.

I guess you could point out to his safety first performances at the end of his middleweight run against the likes of Howard Eastman but I don't really think too much of those fights. In his prime against Echols and Glen Johnson he threw and landed a ton of punches and tried to KO both of them.

I wouldn't say that Walcott had the boxing brain of Hopkins because he made possibly the worst mistake of all time in a boxing ring by dancing and showing off against Joe Louis in a fight he was winning (which led to him getting caught and finished off) but then again Hopkins really blew those Taylor fights by starting his rally too late.

[PLATE]

what was so insane about it, not many people have run into someone who was as technically brilliant as Hopkins. He's 44 years old and just dismantled the undefeated middleweight king.

Inane, you dolt.

[Thunder Lips]

"Once again, the video shows Walcott trading a lot throughout the fight. You can do a highlight video of the career of Hopkins and still wouldn't find him in that kind of fight. Also, you should start at 2:25 of that video. The commentator says ''Walcott was staggered but he came right back''. "

In Round ****ing 11!!!!!

Your quote:

Walcott was staggered in that second round

Your video doesn't even show the 2nd, it goes to the 3rd. Nah, I can't see any reason why I would question your powers of perception as you haven't even paid close attention to your own video evidence. Yeah, as the fight progressed Marciano's pressure forced Walcott into tougher and toughter situations resulting in him getting hit more and more until the big one got dropped. Walcott didn't get stopped because he was looking to trade and brawl, he was a great defensive fighter that got broke down by Marciano after 13 rounds of relentless aggression. Of course to admit this would mean that Marciano was an effective swarmer and we can't have that. I'm done with this, remind me to never bother with your posts anymore.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I made a simple mistake, and you blow it up like its bigger than what it is. And regardless of weather it was the 11th or 2nd round, Joe was trading with Marciano and getting hit back in the process. When Hopkins trades( which is rare), he doesn't get hit because he has his chin tucked under shoulder and he never stands in the pocket too long. Hes in and out especially against big punchers. Its really just laughable how i point out the facts to you, show you evidence as proof and yet you still don't take anything into account and continue to claim that Walcott has better defense than Hopkins, when everyone with a brain in this thread disagreed with.

You rarely answered any of my questions, you ignore points and at the end, got upset because you wasn't winning the debate, what does that sound like? Someone getting the worst of an argument? You're a lot better than this Thunder Lips.

[them_apples]

Inane, you dolt.

lmao, my bad

be nice

[Thunder Lips]

I wouldn't say that Walcott had the boxing brain of Hopkins because he made possibly the worst mistake of all time in a boxing ring by dancing and showing off against Joe Louis in a fight he was winning (which led to him getting caught and finished off) but then again Hopkins really blew those Taylor fights by starting his rally too late.

You have to take into consideration that Walcott didn't get the decision in the first fight because of his conservative tactics against the beloved Champion. Obviously he was looking to make more of a point by showboating more, still I don't think that cost him the fight. You also have to admit Louis set a pretty good trap for those sneaky rights that broke Walcott down and was willing to take a good left to land them in both instances. I find it really hard to knock Walcott for this because you give Louis enough rounds against anybody he'll figure you out and land something. Seriously Hopkins never fought someone with the boxing brain of Joe Louis.


lol SlickSouthpaw16. If Them Apples is the only person in this thread with a brain you can keep him.