Bernard Hopkins vs Joe Louis

[them_apples]

I totally agree with you man; it's best not to post in threads like this too much, it will raise your blood pressure through the roof! LOL

All you can do is encourage people to review tapes of the old fighters and learn their histories, and learn something of the circumstances in which they lived and fought. Fighters today ARE coddled; even a warrier like B-Hop never had to endure the insane hardships Marciano (and particular Louis) just took for granted as they were climbing the ladder of success so long ago. Purses were tiny, racism was rampant, bouts were longer, there was no pulling out of a fight if a fledging fighter got'injured' outside of the ring, the fights themselves were rough and dirty, training conditions were horrible, and they were not so inclined to stop fights due to cuts and successive knockdowns and maimed faces

this was actually a logical post.

I have watched a lot of the old tapes, not as much as posters like themanchine and poet, but enough.

This isn't a matter of what era who is fighting who in. Louis easily cracks most of the clowns at heavyweight these days, at least he actually comes in shape.

I'd pick Nard' to bust up a lot of todays heavyweights to and they are 250 lbs (fat) 6'4.

Look what a guy like Jones did to a typical heavyweight of today, completely took him to school.

[PLATE]

ever seen Foster vs Ali, Foster was dominating untill Ali hit him with something big.

foreman is 220 lbs and he's a massively strong dude, you can give your self an uppcut for that one.

Frazier is 204 naturally, still to big.

oh, rocky is 186, he's about Jeff Lacy's size.

your just mad that I think B-Hop can beat Rocky.

He's mad because you stubbornly to refuse to look beyond Marciano's size. As if this was the be-all and end-all of what makes a great fighter! Like someone mentioned elsewhere, Rocky was a stocky dude and could have concievably fought at a much heavier weight; however he chose to enter the ring lean and mean because his punching power was unaffected and it gave him a terrific edge stamina-wise. Marciano knew better than anyone how limited he was in terms of height, reach, skill, and so on; why do you think he concentrated so fanatically on strength and endurance training?

And even you have to admit, his strategy worked beautifully.

[KostyaTszyu44]

And i think you just dont want to beleave that Rocky And Joe would cream B - Hop, You can say all you want "Rocky had trouble with small men to" but the FACT is that Rocky BEAT them all, and that includes Smaller men AND BIGGER men,

49 - 0 FACT

To beat Rocky you need to Box and Move, B - Hop is a boxer/puncher. and at some point in time he will stand toe to toe with Rocky and then it will be goodnight for Hopkins.



and it is a damn joke, Hopkins being a great fighter in his division is one thing, but putting him up against 2 fighters that rank up in the TOP 10 Heavyweights of all time is a whole other story. Step back into reality,


Rocky Beats B - Hop by Death

Louis Beats B - Hop by creaming

End of story


B-hop is a great fighter, But dont insult the the BEST of the HWs with this garbage.

ok well hopkins isnt a boxer puncher, hes a technical defensive fighter who analyses his opponents best weapon and takes it away from them, he would not go toe to toe with rocky, hes not ******ed

his chin is exceptional as is his defence, he wouldnt get knocked out

you dont beat a pressure fighter by moving excessively, you will eventually get tired and get taken out, watch cotto-margarito for an example of that

you beat a pressure fighter by minimising your energy output, pivoting or moving just out of range, rolling off punches, clinching when you have to, potshotting and countering from all different ranges and angles...you do move, but only as much as you have to, eg: slipping just out of range of a punch, pivoting out just far enough to avoid their attack, clinching lots, moving back just far enough etc and by doing that you slow down the fight and take away their best asset- workrate.... and thats exactly what b-hop would do, beating rocky by a UD over 12 or 15

[them_apples]

He's mad because you stubbornly to refuse to look beyond Marciano's size. As if this was the be-all and end-all of what makes a great fighter! Like someone mentioned elsewhere, Rocky was a stocky dude and could have concievably fought at a much heavier weight; however he chose to enter the ring lean and mean because his punching power was unaffected and it gave him a terrific edge stamina-wise. Marciano knew better than anyone how limited he was in terms of height, reach, skill, and so on; why do you think he concentrated so fanatically on strength and endurance training?

And even you have to admit, his strategy worked beautifully.

wait, I have given more reasons than just his size, I only state that to make sure people don't think Marciano will have a huge size advantage because b-Hop fought at middle.

I have frequently said Marciano was slow, lacked defense and fought sub-par competition. He is also very one dimensional.

when I mention size in this match up, it's to make a point that size doesn't matter. There have been many accounts when the smaller man has wooped the bigger man. Considering Hopkins and Rocky are the same size, it comes down to skills, and Hopkins has much, much more skill.

[res]

with that note however, if boxers back then were "tougher" fighters of today are generally faster and stronger "generally"

Agreed; "generally" speaking.

Ofcourse here speed would be the major issue rather than strength

[PLATE]

wait, I have given more reasons than just his size, I only state that to make sure people don't think Marciano will have a huge size advantage because b-Hop fought at middle.

I have frequently said Marciano was slow, lacked defense and fought sub-par competition. He is also very one dimensional.

when I mention size in this match up, it's to make a point that size doesn't matter. There have been many accounts when the smaller man has wooped the bigger man. Considering Hopkins and Rocky are the same size, it comes down to skills, and Hopkins has much, much more skill.

OK, I understand the point you are trying to make, although I think Hopkin's skill would be easily nullified by The Rocks savagery and strength superiority, and I hardly consider Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott, Roland LaStarza, etc. 'subpar competition.'

[ßringer]

I can see Hopkins beating Joe Louis. Louis had his ears boxed off by Jersey Joe Walcott in their first fight, and Walcott got robbed. Hopkins is a fighter very similar to Walcott (infact Walcott is one of his greatest inspirations), very cagey, defensive minded, amazing counterpuncher, and he employs a lot of the tactics that Walcott himself employed.

Joe would have to catch Hopkins with a bomb to win the fight, by my estimation. And that's very hard to envision, considering how flatfooted and slow Louis was. Couple that with the fact that Hopkins is rarely, if ever, caught cleanly. And on the rare occasions when he has been caught cleanly, Hopkins has proven capable of taking the leather in stride.

I'd favor Hopkins to beat Louis by UD.

[them_apples]

OK, I understand the point you are trying to make, although I think Hopkin's skill would be easily nullified by The Rocks savagery and strength superiority, and I hardly consider Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott, Roland LaStarza, etc. 'subpar competition.'

they are sub par because they were all at the end of their Careers. If he fought them in their primes that would have been a different story.

[Kid McCoy]

I can see Hopkins beating Joe Louis. Louis had his ears boxed off by Jersey Joe Walcott in their first fight, and Walcott got robbed. Hopkins is a fighter very similar to Walcott (infact Walcott is one of his greatest inspirations), very cagey, defensive minded, amazing counterpuncher, and he employs a lot of the tactics that Walcott himself employed.

Joe would have to catch Hopkins with a bomb to win the fight, by my estimation. And that's very hard to envision, considering how flatfooted and slow Louis was. Couple that with the fact that Hopkins is rarely, if ever, caught cleanly. And on the rare occasions when he has been caught cleanly, Hopkins has proven capable of taking the leather in stride.

I'd favor Hopkins to beat Louis by UD.

The only snag is Walcott was about 40lbs north of Hopkins' peak weight.

Seriously, did I do a Rip van Winkle and sleep through Hopkins' glorious move up to heavyweight, in which he schooled the Klitschkos, Haye, Valuev, Povetkin etc, after which he reigned as undisputed heavyweight champ until the age of 50? That's the only explanation I can think of for all those who want to pit a career middleweight against all-time great heavyweights, and think he can win.

The Conn comparisons don't work either. Conn was undefeated as light-heavy champ and also beat several top heavyweight contenders prior to facing Louis. Considering Hopkins has never faced a heavyweight and his sole meaningful win at 175 was against a lacklustre Tarver, there really is no comparison.

As for the Conn-Louis fight, Louis took Conn lightly and drained himself to get to below 200lb, not wanting to be accused of being a bully beating on a little guy. Even so, it was never the boxing clinic that some claim - Louis swept the early rounds with his body attack, which paid dividends later - and given the way some talk about the fight, it's easy to forget that the end result was Conn lying on the canvas and out for the count. I also disagree that Conn only lost because he went for the KO. He fought the 13th the way he fought the rest, Louis just caught up with him.

If Calzaghe can turn Hopkins into a spoiling whiner, crawling around on the canvas after phantom low blows, I have little doubt what a dose of Louis' power would do to him. Louis may appear "flat footed", but he was very good at cutting down the ring, had fast hands, and an excellent boxer himself. He'd send Hopkins into orbit, which is where this match-up ought to be.

So Louis by KO.

[sleazyfellow]

As for the Conn-Louis fight, Louis took Conn lightly and drained himself to get to below 200lb, not wanting to be accused of being a bully beating on a little guy.

So Louis by KO.

Louis did not weigh 199 for that fight, its been documented mike jacobs made the weight seem a little more closer to make it seem like a more evenly matched fight. But I agree about louis KOing bernard, bernard might be able to sneak a few rounds but once louis got a solid shot on him itd be all over.