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Is Sam Langford an all time great heavyweight?

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    #1

    Is Sam Langford an all time great heavyweight?

    Is he one of the greatest heavyweights ever ?
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    #2
    Originally posted by WillieWild114 View Post
    Is he one of the greatest heavyweights ever ?
    I reserve all time greatness for the top 20 all time. So yes, Sam is in all time great, as is Harry Wills.
    Slugfester Slugfester likes this.
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      #3
      Originally posted by WillieWild114 View Post
      Is he one of the greatest heavyweights ever ?
      He is a top 10 P4P ATG, that's enough for me.
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        #4
        No, he is not, IMO, but an ATG anyway. I doubt if Wills is an ATG heavyweight either. Who you didn't get to fight is no measure of greatness. Yes, he fought some excellent fighters. He fought basically black fighters. White fighters of the era are excoriated for not fighting blacks. Can't criticize Wills, because he wanted to fight whites, but how does wanting to make him an ATG heavyweight? I speculate Wills might have done pretty well against modern heavies--but I cannot say the same for a 170 lbs. Langford. A 170 lbs. Langford while he still had a breath of freshness left in him managed to KO the great Wills. Wills started beating Langford after Sam was going downhill fast. Is Wills even considered the best of all those old time black heavyweights outside of Johnson himself?

        Is Mickey Walker an ATG heavyweight or even light heavyweight? He is not even considered an ATG middleweight according to our own lists.
        GhostofDempsey GhostofDempsey likes this.
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          #5
          I would say yes. If you look at his record from around 1906-15 he beat pretty much every major heavy apart from Johnson. His loss were rare, disputed and often won in crushing style in rematches (see smith, Mcvea for details). He went on years past his prime and still had some good wins.

          he must be in the 10-20 area for greatness as a heavy
          Slugfester Slugfester likes this.
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            #6
            Originally posted by Slugfester View Post
            No, he is not, IMO, but an ATG anyway. I doubt if Wills is an ATG heavyweight either. Who you didn't get to fight is no measure of greatness. Yes, he fought some excellent fighters. He fought basically black fighters. White fighters of the era are excoriated for not fighting blacks. Can't criticize Wills, because he wanted to fight whites, but how does wanting to make him an ATG heavyweight? I speculate Wills might have done pretty well against modern heavies--but I cannot say the same for a 170 lbs. Langford. A 170 lbs. Langford while he still had a breath of freshness left in him managed to KO the great Wills. Wills started beating Langford after Sam was going downhill fast. Is Wills even considered the best of all those old time black heavyweights outside of Johnson himself?

            Is Mickey Walker an ATG heavyweight or even light heavyweight? He is not even considered an ATG middleweight according to our own lists.
            Wills arguably has a better resume than Dempsey. Holmes, Liston, Bowe, Vits, Wlad, easily a better heavyweight resume than Tunney, and the list goes on. ATG is subjective, but Wills certainly Belongs in the conversation.

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              #7
              Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post

              I reserve all time greatness for the top 20 all time. So yes, Sam is in all time great, as is Harry Wills.
              Wills was in his prime for most of his famous fights vs. older / shop worn men. He just was.

              Sam is in my top 10 pound per pound fighters ever.

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                #8
                Originally posted by cfang View Post
                I would say yes. If you look at his record from around 1906-15 he beat pretty much every major heavy apart from Johnson. His loss were rare, disputed and often won in crushing style in rematches (see smith, Mcvea for details). He went on years past his prime and still had some good wins.

                he must be in the 10-20 area for greatness as a heavy
                - - IBRO the base standard for which ratings discussion begin and they say Wills just out of top 20.

                ​

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