Gun Boat Smith Sparring With Bob Armstrong

[Ivich]

Borrowed this from a mate on Classic.

[them_apples]

Here it is. Smith is an under rated heavyweight with a TKO over the 1909 over Jack Johnson in an exhibition. With wins over Sam Langford and Jess Willard he could have been the lineal champion. There is film of the Carpenter match. Smith was screwed.



At any rate, here is a clip of Smith sparring.

Great find. Wish we could see the grappling

[Ivich]

Great find. Wish we could see the grappling

Just ignore the fact that I have already posted it immediately above .lol

[Ivich]

Here it is. Smith is an under rated heavyweight with a TKO over the 1909 over Jack Johnson in an exhibition. With wins over Sam Langford and Jess Willard he could have been the lineal champion. There is film of the Carpenter match. Smith was screwed.



At any rate, here is a clip of Smith sparring.

No decisions are given in a spar which is what Johnson and Smith were engaged in.
You have been repeating this lie for over a dozen years now and have been corrected on it too many times to count.
A leopard doesn't change his spots and a liar does not stop lying.

[Ivich]

Johnson was down and dazed and saw stars. His manager halted the action in round three. I call that a TKO. The small crowd congratulated Gunboat. NO, it was not an official fight on Johnson's professional record, as stated it was an exhibition.

Just like no pig diets you continue to bathe and eat the crap in front of you. Are you still pig sick for defending this wife beater with a me first world 15th type of attitude?

Do not bother denying facts and continue to argue with the truth.

You can and do call it what you like,the fact remains you can't have a tko in a sparring session.
The fact also remains Johnson sparred a further 6 rounds with 3 different sparring partners that afternoon,and you know this because I ****ing told you about it numerous times giving the names of the men! It was a SPAR and THAT is confirmed by authors POLLACK ,BATCHELOR,FARR, and WARD.and by SMITH HIMSELF .
You are just a compulsive LIAR .I'm neither pig sick nor defending Johnson. I'm just correcting your lies, something which has become routine for me.

WTF is this about? "Just like no pig diets you continue to bathe and eat the crap in front of you. " Have you finally lost what little sense you ever possessed?
Only a rabid Johnson hater like you would turn a clip of
GunBoat Smith sparring into a negative critique of JackJohnson.

You are one sick MF!

[them_apples]

Thanks.


Here is the report is again. Read it, it clearly states that Johnson was down flat on his back and when he recovered to his feet he was so dazed that his manger had to cut the round short! What do you call that? I call it a TKO in exhibition match. I don't write them, I just give the board an opportunity to read them. Smith never got a title shot, despite beating several Jack Johnson opponents and would have been highly ranked ( If they had ring magazine rankings back then ) , just like Langford, Mcvey, Jeanette, and Wills who Johnson ducked while champion. " And he never forgot it " - Smith on the blow who had Johnson down and dazed in the book In this Corner.


​

it's actually extremely hard to judge this era because it was such a different style of fighting. When you can grab, hold and hit - it changes everything. you don't have to slip and duck stuff nearly as much, you grapple and ride shots (move with them). They really would be tests of willpower and strength as much as skills and trickery. I think Foreman would have been great in this era.

I think Harry Greb p4p is vastly superior to Johnson, and even beat men s big as Johnson. However, if Johnson is fully allowed to Grab greb and tie him up while uppercutting him, Who knows if Grebs style would work?

[Ivich]

Thanks.


Here is the report is again. Read it, it clearly states that Johnson was down flat on his back and when he recovered to his feet he was so dazed that his manger had to cut the round short! What do you call that? I call it a TKO in exhibition match. I don't write them, I just give the board an opportunity to read them. Smith never got a title shot, despite beating several Jack Johnson opponents and would have been highly ranked ( If they had ring magazine rankings back then ) , just like Langford, Mcvey, Jeanette, and Wills who Johnson ducked while champion. " And he never forgot it " - Smith on the blow who had Johnson down and dazed in the book In this Corner.

It was a spar. and 4 authors and Smith himself stated it . Johnson's then manager stated they had neglected to put resin on the canvas and Johnson lost his footing,that is probably just damage limitation.
Pollack noted that 4 reporters who were present did not mention any KD of Johnson.

The fact remains Johnson sparred with 3 other boxers that same afternoon.

One theory I've read is Johnson was trying to hype up his coming fight with Ketchel, both Ketchel and Smith were great right hand punchers,and its possible a KD to Smith would make a fight with Ketchel look more evenly matched.

In any event it was nothing more than a knockdown in sparring.

An event that you have been relentlessly pursuing and trying to inflate into something significant for years.

If every sparring partner who knocked down his Champion employer received a title shot as a result.

Toxie Hall would have met Marciano for the title.

Raphael Butler and Travis Walker would both have gotten title shots for dropping Vitali Klitschko.

Greg Page would have got one for dropping Mike Tyson.

Aaron Wade,and Cocoa Kid for flooring Ray Robinson.

Smith had only a window of about a year in which he was a viable contender,His points dec over Langford was emphaticaly avnged when Langford bombed him out in3 rds after flooring him in both the preceding rounds
Whatever the rights and wrongs of
his dsq to Carpentier,the Frenchman weighing 170lbs dropped him

During Johnson's title reign Smith lost to:

Denver Ed Martin 1909
Drew with 9-4-2 Jack Burns1909

Was ko'd by Jim Barry 1910

Ko'd by Joe Willis 9-8-2 1910

Drew with 13 fight Vic Hansen 1910

Lost to Jim Barry1911

Lost to 9-6-2 Charlie Miller 1911

Was ko'd by13-5-2 Jack Geyer 1911

Drew with 16 fight Charlie Horn 1912

Lost to Jim Sargeant 23-10-4 1912

Lost to 32-8-11 Porky Flynn 1912

Drew with middleweight Jack Sullivan1912

Fought Frank Moran is such a stinker of a fight the crowd began walking out long before the end.

Drew with LVY Battling Levinsky 1915

Lost to Lhvy Jack Dillon 1915

You are ridiculous!

[Ivich]

YES and NO.

Greb foght the best in their primes or near primes. We can judge him clearly, an he comes out excellent.

Johnson did NOT fight the best in their primes or near primes depetite the offers being there so he is untested vs. the best ( good or bad ) but did mature versions of Choyinski, Griffin, and Hart and lost. He gave Willard, who was in his prime, a shot, and lost. But in this fight Jonson was out of his prime.

He gave the past his best O'brien a shot and had a news draw. He had a lucky draw with Battling Jim Johnson too.

BUT he never fought prime or near prime versions of Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Smith ( Johnson did have a 4 round news loss in exhibition to Smith ) , McCarty, or Wills. All of whom were viewed as top fighters from 1908-1913. IMO the second group he did not fight is better then the first group he lost to and drew with.

Your opinion on this point is?

"

" Johnson did have a 4 round news loss in exhibition to Smith . "
This is an outright and deliberate lie,and has been proved to be so a multitude of times.

[Ivich]

new losses are unofficial, do you deny the knock down?

Shameless of you to indicate otherwise.




All of the above is true.

Nope it was a sparring session as attested to by Smith himself and four biographers of Johnson.

Shameless of you to continually repeat your lies
I have not denied the knockdown I just gave the opinions of the event supplied by respected authors and the man who was actually in the ring with Johnson.
Now crawl back under your rock you illiterate fool!

[Dr. Z]

Thanks.


Here is the report is again. Read it, it clearly states that Johnson was down flat on his back and when he recovered to his feet he was so dazed that his manger had to cut the round short! What do you call that? I call it a TKO in exhibition match. I don't write them, I just give the board an opportunity to read them. Smith never got a title shot, despite beating several Jack Johnson opponents and would have been highly ranked ( If they had ring ****zine rankings back then ) , just like Langford, Mcvey, Jeanette, and Wills who Johnson ducked while champion. " And he never forgot it " - Smith on the blow who had Johnson down and dazed in the book In this Corner.

it's actually extremely hard to judge this era because it was such a different style of fighting. When you can grab, hold and hit - it changes everything. you don't have to slip and duck stuff nearly as much, you grapple and ride shots (move with them). They really would be tests of willpower and strength as much as skills and trickery. I think Foreman would have been great in this era.

I think Harry Greb p4p is vastly superior to Johnson, and even beat men s big as Johnson. However, if Johnson is fully allowed to Grab greb and tie him up while uppercutting him, Who knows if Grebs style would work?

You post the Greb is vastly superior to Johnson is spot on.