Who wins these fights?

[CarlosG815]

No. You base it on level of competition and longevity. How can Roy Jones be rated a greater middleweight than Greb when he never fought the same quality of fighters as Greb and didn't do it as long?

Greb was dead by 32.

How are you so sure his competition was tougher than RJJ? Back up what you're saying. I have a ton of film that show's why RJJ has a good chance to beat any middleweight in history.

[JAB5239]

Greb was dead by 32.

What does that mean, he still had nearly 300 fights.

How are you so sure his competition was tougher than RJJ? Back up what you're saying. I have a ton of film that show's why RJJ has a good chance to beat any middleweight in history.

His competition was more accomplished at 160 than Roy, and they fought better fighters compared to the comp RJJ. There is plenty of film and historical data to back that up.

Still waiting on you to answer my other post in this thread.

[macthechamp]

Kinda hard to choose, since there's no actual fight footage of Greb.

[StarshipTrooper]

Wasn't Jones at Middleweight long enough to maybe have a cup of coffee early in his career and that was about it?

Poet

[JAB5239]

Wasn't Jones at Middleweight long enough to maybe have a cup of coffee early in his career and that was about it?

Poet

Yup, and his most notable wins there are over a green Hopkins and Frank Tate, who would go on to lose to Rocky Gannon just two years and two fights later. Do this make an all time great middleweight?

[macthechamp]

Yup, and his most notable wins there are over a green Hopkins and Frank Tate, who would go on to lose to Rocky Gannon just two years and two fights later. Do this make an all time great middleweight?

Why do people always say it was a green Hopkins? They act like Jones wasn't green, as well..

[JAB5239]

Why do people always say it was a green Hopkins? They act like Jones wasn't green, as well..

This actually strengthens my point why Jones shouldn't be considered an all time great middle. You're right. In terms of pro experence and against top comp, Roy was green too. I do think he fought the slightly better fighters on his way to that title though and he had his lengthy amateur career and Olympic experience. I believe that has to count for something compared to learning your trade inside a prison with men who are tough, but not very well trained.

[macthechamp]

This actually strengthens my point why Jones shouldn't be considered an all time great middle. You're right. In terms of pro experence and against top comp, Roy was green too. I do think he fought the slightly better fighters on his way to that title though and he had his lengthy amateur career and Olympic experience. I believe that has to count for something compared to learning your trade inside a prison with men who are tough, but not very well trained.

I agree with you about the all-time great middleweight ratings. He definitely doesn't belong.

I just don't get why people considered Hopkins to be green, when the same could've been said about Jones.

Jones might've fought in the amateurs longer and had the Olympic experience, but the amateurs are a lot different from the pros. Hopkins had more pro fights than Jones, too.

My point is that Hopkins was pretty much on the same level as Jones. I know this has very little to do with the thread topic, but I just had to comment on that.

[JAB5239]

I agree with you about the all-time great middleweight ratings. He definitely doesn't belong.

I just don't get why people considered Hopkins to be green, when the same could've been said about Jones.

Jones might've fought in the amateurs longer and had the Olympic experience, but the amateurs are a lot different from the pros. Hopkins had more pro fights than Jones, too.

My point is that Hopkins was pretty much on the same level as Jones. I know this has very little to do with the thread topic, but I just had to comment on that.

Its cool. You pointed out something that often gets overlooked, by myself included. I do disagree however about the amateurs being a lot different than the pros. Style wise, yes. But at the level Roy fought at in the amateurs help you become a more polished fighter than the average amateur who doesn't get to face that type of competition.