Top 20 of all times?

[LacedUp]

Well clearly it's not because you're letting Wilde off for having a poor resume but not Roy Jones.

Roy Jones resume absolutely blows Wilde's out of the water.

I'm not entirely sure.

What I do know is, when you're touting names like Johnny Rosner and Young Zulu Kid amongst his best wins then he's absolutely no where near Top 20 ATG calibur.

Are they good fighters? They both ended their careers with losing records for crying out loud. And these are amongst his best wins?

Speaks for itself.

Not even close to Top 20.

Those were just the ones of the top of my head - that he beat for titles.

I don't know why you say he has a bad resume. if you look deeper into his resume you'd see that he has beaten guys such as Tommy Noble, Johnny Hughes, Sid Smith, Young Jennings, Tancy Lee, Joe Symonds (all champions or ex-champions in either the flyweight or bantamweight divisions).

He also beat Bouzini, Cullen, and Mansfield - all top flyweights. He also beat Pal Moore and joe lynch - top rated bantamweights as well as Joe Conn a top british featherweight.

And I believe he knocked them all out, bar a few.

[IronDanHamza]

Those were just the ones of the top of my head - that he beat for titles.

I don't know why you say he has a bad resume. if you look deeper into his resume you'd see that he has beaten guys such as Tommy Noble, Johnny Hughes, Sid Smith, Young Jennings, Tancy Lee, Joe Symonds (all champions or ex-champions in either the flyweight or bantamweight divisions).

He also beat Bouzini, Cullen, and Mansfield - all top flyweights. He also beat Pal Moore and joe lynch - top rated bantamweights as well as Joe Conn a top british featherweight.

And I believe he knocked them all out, bar a few.

It's pretty clear that his resume is not very good.

This is what I'm talking about, you're naming guys like Johnny Hughes, Tommy Noble, Sid Smith. These are the fighters you're touting.

Now compare those to every other fighter on the Top 20 list and it's quite the enormous gap in calibur.

You say they're Ex Champions. What, British Champions? European Champions? That's just a statistic to throw out.

The guys you are listing are not very good.

And do you have a source for these being top rated contenders?

[LacedUp]

It's pretty clear that his resume is not very good.

This is what I'm talking about, you're naming guys like Johnny Hughes, Tommy Noble, Sid Smith. These are the fighters you're touting.

Now compare those to every other fighter on the Top 20 list and it's quite the enormous gap in calibur.

You say they're Ex Champions. What, British Champions? European Champions? That's just a statistic to throw out.

The guys you are listing are not very good.

And do you have a source for these being top rated contenders?

Well, they were good for their time. You know as well as I do that there wasn't a 'world' champion at the time, so why does it matter whether they were european, british, american etc champions? They were considered champions.

Some of them were ex champions, some of them were champions - also some of the ones I mentioned in previous posts were champions, including your friend, the excellent young zulu kid. The point is though, that when you beat the champs, the ex champs and the top rated contenders of 2-3 different weight classes - there is not really anyone left.

I can most definitely probably get a source. But otherwise if you try and find some old articles on Wilde, pretty much everyone about him will mention that these guys were top rated.

[IronDanHamza]

Well, they were good for their time. You know as well as I do that there weren't a 'world' champion at the time, so why does it matter whether they were european, british, american etc champions? They were considered champions.

Some of them were ex champions, some of them were champions - also some of the ones I mentioned in previous posts were champions, including your friend, the excellent young zulu kid. The point is though, that when you beat the champs, the ex champs and the top rated contenders of 2-3 different weight classes - there is not really anyone left.

I can most definitely probably get a source. But otherwise if you try and find some old articles on Wilde, pretty much everyone about him will mention that these guys were top rated.

So they weren't Champions. There's no point saying they're champions to make it sound better when they were British Champions.

If you can "most definitely probably" get a source then show me some. I'd be interested to see if they were the Top contenders of that time considering how dismal some of their records are and considering from all the reading I've done I've not really come across much like that.

Either way the fact remains his resume is not even close to Top 20 calibur. Not even nearly close.

And someone like Roy Jones, for example, who apparently the idea of him being Top 20 is laughable, has a resume that is absolutely worlds better than Wilde's.

[LacedUp]

So they weren't Champions. There's no point saying they're champions to make it sound better when they were British Champions.

If you can "most definitely probably" get a source then show me some. I'd be interested to see if they were the Top contenders of that time considering how dismal some of their records are and considering from all the reading I've done I've not really come across much like that.

Either way the fact remains his resume is not even close to Top 20 calibur. Not even nearly close.

And someone like Roy Jones, for example, who apparently the idea of him being Top 20 is laughable, has a resume that is absolutely worlds better than Wilde's.

But Dan, times were different. They were considered champions at the time - just of different areas. When there's no world champion, how can fighting every champion and then become world champion - stand out as a negative to you? That makes no sense to me.

I'll go on a hunt and find you some good articles. There's one I like from the IBHOF website that did a profile of him. Bob Mee has written about him in his book as well.

I don't think I said it was 'laughable'. I even said his resume was pretty comparable to Chavez's. I did say in another thread that I thought he was a top 50 kind of guy. I've always thought of him that way, mainly because I do tend to put emphasis on older guys.

I haven't really done a top 50 list ever, I was just thinking that's around where i'd place him off the top of my head at the time.

[LacedUp]

Here are some articles on Wilde:







- The third one is really good and touch upon his opponents. so does the first one.

[IronDanHamza]

But Dan, times were different. They were considered champions at the time - just of different areas. When there's no world champion, how can fighting every champion and then become world champion - stand out as a negative to you? That makes no sense to me.

I'll go on a hunt and find you some good articles. There's one I like from the IBHOF website that did a profile of him. Bob Mee has written about him in his book as well.

I don't think I said it was 'laughable'. I even said his resume was pretty comparable to Chavez's. I did say in another thread that I thought he was a top 50 kind of guy. I've always thought of him that way, mainly because I do tend to put emphasis on older guys.

I haven't really done a top 50 list ever, I was just thinking that's around where i'd place him off the top of my head at the time.

There are plenty of fighters that fought in the same Era that you don't need to say "Well he fought a British Champion!" to try and bump them up.

Saying "He beat this Champion and that Champion" isn't really saying anything when he beat a British Champion. Beating a British Champion is not that impressive.

It's a negative to me because clearly if they were the best of that time then that time was an awful time.

Joe Calzaghe beat all the best guys of his time in his weight class, Hopkins beat all the guys of his MW era. Both of their resume's aren't overly impressive because their era's are weak.

I want to know how anyone can have Jimmy Wilde in their Top 20 ATG list. There's absolutely no way of justifying a guy who has the resume he does to be a Top 20 ATG when everyone else around him in that list has a resume that is literally leauges and leauges better.

You mean to tell me that Wilde is going to next to Ray Leonard, Gene Tunney or Archie Moore? That's a joke.

If Roy Jones and Chavez have comparable resume's than how is Chavez #13 and Roy Jones Top 50 range?

[IronDanHamza]

Here are some articles on Wilde:







- The third one is really good and touch upon his opponents. so does the first one.

Your post a few pages ago is almost word for word excerpts from Monte Cox's article.

None of these links tell me anything.

All it say's is "These were good fighters" when it's clear that very few of them are.

I want a source that tells me these were the top contenders of this time like being claimed.

Both of the articles also say that Young Zulu was his best win. That alone speaks for itself.

[LacedUp]

Your post a few pages ago is almost word for word excerpts from Monte Cox's article.

None of these links tell me anything.

All it say's is "These were good fighters" when it's clear that very few of them are.

I want a source that tells me these were the top contenders of this time like being claimed.

Both of the articles also say that Young Zulu was his best win. That alone speaks for itself.

Well, as I said before - the first post about Jimmy Wilde's career was off the top of my head. When asked about more of his opponents, I needed to go back and research a little more. I wasn't around in the 1910's unfortunately and it's been a while since I've ducked into Jimmy Wilde's career.

It does say they were top rated fighters? "men such as Bouzini, Mansfield, and Cullen who were all top flyweights". the rest were documented champs or ex champs.

[IronDanHamza]

Well, as I said before - the first post about Jimmy Wilde's career was off the top of my head. When asked about more of his opponents, I needed to go back and research a little more. I wasn't around in the 1910's unfortunately and it's been a while since I've ducked into Jimmy Wilde's career.

It does say they were top rated fighters?

It doesn't. It just say's what you've said.

Listed them and said "These were good". Were they?

And if there were good, that tells you a lot about what has to be one of the worst era's in the entirety of Boxing history.

Let's pretend these were top fighters or good fighters. Let's pretend his alleged best win, Young Zulu, is a good fighter, the best fighter who ended his career with a losing record.

How on this Planet can you justify having Jimmy Wilde in your Top 20 ATG list? Or even above "Top 50 calibur" Roy Jones? I don't understand how it's possible to have Jimmy Wilde ranked ahead of Roy Jones.