Who'd win in a battle of the jabs: Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko?

[dan_cov]

He had a good few problems with Bruno, who also had a strong straight and stinging jab. Yeah he was, but even so, this was a Lewis who in my opinion hadn't really learned the pro game yet. he was still amateurish and right hand happy. He didn't work as much off the jab then as he did later. His jab vs Tyson was outstanding.

I think he mixed it up quite well against a limited opponent. I think it was a concious choice not to KO him in the first, as he wants to have a show and give the fans some rounds. The left hook was a cracker though!

I know, and people are trying to tell me Pulev is massively skilled and has an outstanding jab.

That is a fair point he was a much better boxer under Manny Stewards wing and was definitely a bit sloppy and reliant on his right hand in his younger days. In fact I recall him in that fight Bruno looking for that overhand right all night.

Wlad frustrates me as a fan, drops a guy like that and the first thing he does is clinch I did read he has an RTL deal or something where he allegedly gets a % for the ads between rounds? Always assumed that it was why he seems to often prolong his fights though hes very safety first anyway.

[billeau2]

Wlad was just outjabbed by Kubrat Poolev. If he could, surely, Lennox could.

You can't use one fight. Also watch how Lewis uses the jab to dismantle Golata. This fight is instructive because it demonstrates that many punching heavyweights use the jab to dismantle, to open up the opponent. I believe Vlad and lewis both fall in this category. Lewis did not need the jab to take Grant out and Vlad surely felt as though hitting a stationary rock em sock em robot, with chin up and guard losely held did not require a jab.

[billeau2]

One part of the jab is how the footwork is used as part of the jab. Ali could hit with a jab from a great distance, Holmes could use the jab at many angles because of his own lateral movement.

Vlad's sheer mechnical ability to use the jab is impressive. He uses it properly with his height, but to have the best jab it would have to incorporate better auxillory skills like footwork and angles in my opinion.

One parallel I see in martial arts and boxing.....remembering that classical Aiki Jutsu and the original boxing tecniques both come from sword work....the former from the japanese Sword, the latter from fencing, is the concept of distance and the subseqent importance of distance. In sword work one does not necessarily renumerate the types of cuts. Rather one speaks of targets and entries.

Originally in boxing every punch was subsumed under how to properly hold the guard...people did not square up, rather they held a guard and the front hand lead, which is like a jab, was thrown when a target was presented. To push the action one would feignt. All punches were based on getting around and through the persons guard rather than as select punch categories like "jab, cross, uppercut, etc." As boxing developed punches developed a nomenclature instead of distance and angle of attach specific punches started to stand in as offensive means. Eventually specialty punches involving turning the hand (the hook, the jab even the uppercut) developed to go through an opponent's guard when in an exchange. This would have never occured with swords....exchanging blades was akin to what the Japanese call Iuchi, or mutual suicide.

As boxing became more and more divorced from swordwork....a change that happened relatively quickly from james Figg.... Distance, and setting distance to attack, became less a thought and boxers spent more time developing specific punches that the fighter wanted to inflict on the opponent at a specific combat range. this range being the place where the punch would land and do most damage. So for example, instead of stepping at a 45 angle, feinting to the left, and leaping into range with a straight lead, the opponent would set, throw a jab, then when closer use a hook because of the distance, yada yada yada.

My point is that jabs, or lead hand punches were originally a strategy to create an opening in the guard without letting one's own guard down. As boxing developed its own paradigm the jab became a way to find and expliote distance. In these two scenerios FOOTWORK was the most important aspect of the jab. Fighters like Dempsey made the jab a punch that could generate power and effect as a punch, not as a way to simply control distance and openings from a distance...In his book on boxing Dempsey actually goes so far as to critisize powder puff jabs and admonishing others to put their weight foward and punch hard when jabbing.

In my opinion some of the great fighters who used a jab use it while retaining sophisticated elements that are still part of boxing technique. jack Johnson could hit an opponent from great distances because of his footwork and boxing mechanics. Ali could hit an opponent while moving into position. Its often said the unseen punch is the one that does most damage and even though Ali through few punch types, all he needed was a jab because of how his footwork and distancing was developed.

Vlad's jab is great. It is powerful but it lacks many elements that fighters who had more skill utilzed. Vlad's jab is better than Lewis' but lewis has always had a deceptively good defense and therefore never utilized the jab to keep people at bay like Vlad does.

[Mugwump]

I'd just like to point out that Bruno had one of the most underrated jabs in the modern era.

I can't think of too many heavies that wouldn't cut out their spleen to exchange with him.

[billeau2]

I'd just like to point out that Bruno had one of the most underrated jabs in the modern era.

I can't think of too many heavies that wouldn't cut out their spleen to exchange with him.

You could substitute "physique" for "jab" in that post and also be right on the money!

[beez721]

I'd just like to point out that Bruno had one of the most underrated jabs in the modern era.

I can't think of too many heavies that wouldn't cut out their spleen to exchange with him.

Bruno did have a pole for a jab. very heavy and thudding. its a shame his chin and stamina weren't very good. that really held him back. he was doing a great job on lewis till his chin let him down

[Mugwump]

You could substitute "physique" for "jab" in that post and also be right on the money!

Nope. I definitely meant his jab.

[Mugwump]

Bruno did have a pole for a jab. very heavy and thudding. its a shame his chin and stamina weren't very good. that really held him back. he was doing a great job on lewis till his chin let him down

I never thought there was much wrong with Bruno's chin. Aside from the fights against Tyson (which he lost before stepping into the ring) - pretty much all of Bruno's troubles stemmed from gassing late in a bout.

[billeau2]

Nope. I definitely meant his jab.

Lol

[young_robbed]

I never thought there was much wrong with Bruno's chin. Aside from the fights against Tyson (which he lost before stepping into the ring) - pretty much all of Bruno's troubles stemmed from gassing late in a bout.

Meh. I'd say it was both. Clearly his chin was a disadvantage. Witherspoon hurt him bad, and yeah he was gassed also but Witherspoon clearly got to him