Put Sonny Liston in Tyson/Holyfield's era

[billeau2]

I don't understand the people saying he was too slow. He controlled the pace methodically.


Before I even clicked the link I had a feeling it was skipping to Night Train

the people that say that... it is also said about Louis... have never fought and realized the process of getting your weight behind a punch. Dempsey's book is the best I have read on the subject. The long and short of it is: when your weight is under your punch it becomes very powerful. Footwork is supposed to accomplish that by a couple of means, simultaneously hitting the target as your foot hits the ground, having your weight centered over your front leg as you hit, etc.

Liston made sure his feet were under his punch. Dempsey did it differently: He made sure he was lunging forward on his hits... just another way of doing the same thing.

[them_apples]

I don't understand the people saying he was too slow. He controlled the pace methodically.


Before I even clicked the link I had a feeling it was skipping to Night Train

well footage of Liston is all in an era with an arena view camera and black and white, maybe 24 fps at best. From that distance fighters always look slower and simpler. Go watch “canelo from the arena, or floyd/pac” youll be undwhelmed. Couldn’t imagine how ****ty Wilder would look from that view.

back on Liston though, technique trumps athleticism.
Liston is clearly heavyboned and naturally strong, like Foreman. Hes smooth however, and trained properly. Water can flow or it can crash. All the oldschool boxers were smooth, no tension - much harder to read an oponents who does everything smooth. Ali was a master at it. Whipping smooth shots - no tight telegraphed explosions I call that fake speed.

[Nash out]

Liston was very slow and had a glass chin (knocked out by a shot that barely grazed him from a feather-fisted puncher means packing glass) but he had power and a great jab. He'd probably beat Mike, as when the going gets tough, Mike gets going, and would beat Evan Fields too as Evan lost about 30 fights, including recently losing to a retired UFC guy in 1 round. People talk about age, but Evan was about the same age vs UFC guy as Liston (real age) was vs Ali.

He'd beat Bowe as Golota beat Bowe twice (paid off refs jumping in with the DQ to save Chicken "belt-binner" Bowe) Not appreciating the incredible body work of Golota. He'd beat the novelty second-coming of Foreman, who beat the overrated Moorer cos Moorer was being ****y after winning every round. Lewis beats him, so I guess Liston would be 2 from the very weak 90s era. Nash out.

Put some respect on the names of Nash's P4P Top 10 in his sig.

[Anthony342]

Liston might do another prison stint as he just might murder almost everyone from the 80s and 90s until Holyfield comes along. He fights a hell of a trilogy with Lewis though, going 2 out of 3, winning by KO and TKO, with a decision loss sandwiched in between, as Stewart helps Lewis come up with a strategy to keep Liston at bay for 1 of those fights. Kinds like the Holyfield/Bowe trilogy.

[tokon]

Liston could get wins fighting clean.
Could Lennox, Evander etc win without roids???

Good comment, massive factor imo. Thanks.

[Willie Pep 229]

Holyfield born 1962; Belfort born 1977.

77-62=15 (Years)

[QueensburyRules]

Holyfield born 1962; Belfort born 1977.

77-62=15 (Years)

- - Ouch, a sad end to a sad end.

[Willow The Wisp]

Holyfield born 1962; Belfort born 1977.

77-62=15 (Years)

Meh. There has to reach a point where those cameo appeaences can't honestly impact your legacy. If a 50-60 year old Hall of Famer flounders in Baseball's old-timers game, nobody views him as diminishing his standing in history. The realities of time are accepted. Everyone's having a good time. Something about a once great fighter taking a hiding though, creats a different spectacle. Holyfield still boasting a hardbody at 60 doesn't help. It's too easy to see him as the 1992 version. Jack Jonson getting beaten up then winning a fake return match against fringe contender Brad Simmons, "The Drumright Phantom" in 1931, or 300 pound Rid**** Bowe getting lowkicked into submission by middling Muay Thai Heavyweight Levgen Golovin a few years ago, you knew Bowe had no business sparring anyone just looking at him, to say nothing of listening, and Johnson was fleshy. But Evander could have still played "The Real Deal" in the movie, provided he had a stunt double. For his part Vitor Belfort is no beginner in the ring. A Judo black belt and a Carlson Gracie prize student BJJ black belt, much of his success in claiming an all-time great status in mixed martial arts is actually attributable to years of extensive boxing training under famed coach Claudio Coelho, his first love from the age of 12 that saw him try out for the Brazilian Olympic boxing team. Evander looked in training like he looked in the fight; fit but in no shape to be in competition, actually banned by the NYSAC since 2005.
Though reports of Holyfield's compansation ranged wildly between 5 million and 500k, after PPV revenues were modest, Julie Imanuel Brown, Secretary of the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation reveiled that Holyfield received $2,885,000 for his last minute participation that saved the show for Triller, which included PPV and sponsorship revenue percentages. That breaks down to $26,467.80 per second for his 109 second cameo, 6.5 years away from social secuity eligibility. Even though the show was silly and the fans knew it; for MMA legends Belfort, Anderson Silva and Tito Ortiz it represented career high paydays, surely a welcome change from being exploited by the UFC. So even here, peope went home happy. I'll tell you the truth; if you want to make any money for yourself fighting, you need to jettison all that kicking, dry humping and butt sniffing stuff, and fight with HONOR. Boxing, due to its intrinsic value, will outlive em' all.

[Ascended]

lennox fought a man named acey that was the modern son for lennox difference is he moved on his toes more

Acey was as slow but more sloopy then son defense was bad just the same threw wide punches similar to and lennox wasnt as strong as his older self but he still destroyed that man
he was missing shots bad and lennox picked him off easy

Imagine the hw ver of lennox facing acey when lennox hit way harder and was way better with his tech he would had destroyed ace way faster

So that shows slow easy to read basic son would be destroyed only crazy idiots say otherwise its obvious he gets destroyed by mid carders even he isn't impressive compared to these eras

[The Old LefHook]

foreman was liston's protege, that wouldve been a crazy fight to watch.

i dont think holyfield would have beat liston, u literally had to avoid contact to last in a fight with him, like Ali did. holyfield is decent at defense, but his defense is different. he invites contact in his defense and liston wouldve hit him all over.

liston vs tyson is interesting though. im not sure who wins that, but im aiming towards mike tyson smothering liston-getting inside his reach and lighting up combos. being quicker.

Mosley, Judah and McClellan? What a joke. That must be your signature. Mosley stomped by Forrest and Wright. Judah stomped by Tsyzu. McClellan stomped into a wheelchair by Benn. All three were in their prime. They are not AT greats.