Is it possible that Floyd Mayweather was technically a better boxer than Muhammad Ali

[them_apples]

--- Joe Louis woulda made Ali's boys weep.

Louis was natural attributes + Skills whereas Ali was mostly about natural attributes leveraged into a limited style.

Louis head to head in their timelines whoops Ali silly no matter how how much ali fans bluster. Wlad also substantial skills, hence he being the only fighter to approach the Louis record.

Read it and weep...

Louis in his prime is massively underated by many because he goes back so far and the footage sucks, although it is improving on youtube.

Most people go on about his size but he is actually a perfect sized HW, he just didn't bulk up mindlessly like cheesburger kings do today.

Realistically he was only 6 lbs lighter than Wilder yet only 6 ft 2, when you are lean and fit you aren't going to weight 300 lbs.

Louis was deadly functional and threw very short and fast punches, he had a short reach for a man his height and I think this is how he knocked a lot of guys out (he would throw from a close range that they didn't expect).

his reach is only about 4 inches longer than Tysons but he was 6 ft 2.

Also, there is plenty of footage of him reffing fights with 70's fighters and the man is not small by any margin. on top of this he made a career out of hammering Wlads to the canvas.

his only critic is the guys he fought, although game and tough - weren't very smart boxers and often took needless risks.

[Tom Cruise]

For reasons like I said.

Ali the boxer was a HW Amir Khan who could take a punch with a better jab & less effective non-jabs.

I also think he gets extra credit as a boxer for sh^t he did out of the ring.



Based on cats who've seen like 5 of his fights sure.

I've watched ~40 something of his fights probably, sh^t maybe more, if not all the fights one can view of his 61 bouts. He wasn't a well rounded fighter. He had speed & the jab. Thats it. And if you've seen his fights you know he got gifted decisions more than any notable boxer ever perhaps. His record was 56-5, but he coulda easily been 51-10 with all the gift decisions he got. If not for Dundee cheating he'd probably have had a KO loss earlier in his career.

An Amir Khan who can take a punch?

No. Just no.

You’ve watched a lot of Ali fights maybe, but it’s pretty clear you didn’t really understand what you were looking at.

[them_apples]

An Amir Khan who can take a punch?

No. Just no.

You’ve watched a lot of Ali fights maybe, but it’s pretty clear you didn’t really understand what you were looking at.

100 percent. reminds me of myself when I was 19, I didn't know what I was talking about or even what I was watching lol

[Eff Pandas]

An Amir Khan who can take a punch?

No. Just no.

You’ve watched a lot of Ali fights maybe, but it’s pretty clear you didn’t really understand what you were looking at.

What is Ali doing thats so amazing? He's quick & gots that jab in your face all night. Then he'll throw a wonky looking uppercut or a right hand every now & again

I hate doing these "take away x's whatever attribute & whats he got" type arguments cuz its resume argument-ish where anyone can be broken down to trash, but if you took away either Ali's quickness or his jab or made then 75% of what they were Ali woulda been barely a top ten guy in his era probably.

Ali was overrated as all f#ck & among the most basic & simplistic of the great fighters. He was great at hype & selling himself & he as I already mentioned didn't dissapoint in his biggest fights but go watch those other fights & see the trash fights those were.

The only thing that made Ali interesting during most of his fights was the talking he did prior & after them. He entertaining as f#ck outta the ring. Less so in most of his fights in the ring, but people get so invested in a guy it can still make a boring simplistic fight compelling to the fans & haters of that fighter as its happening. See Floyd fights for an example of that. Personnally I appreciate the nuances of Floyd's game & think he has many more tools in his toolbox to win fights, but the majority think he's a boring fighter. Thing is millions still watch him cuz he made himself more relevant out of the ring.

[_Rexy_]

But most fans wont admit that. To them nobody was every better than Ali.

Sounds like they’d get along with Floyd fans then.

[Tom Cruise]

What is Ali doing thats so amazing? He's quick & gots that jab in your face all night. Then he'll throw a wonky looking uppercut or a right hand every now & again

I hate doing these "take away x's whatever attribute & whats he got" type arguments cuz its resume argument-ish where anyone can be broken down to trash, but if you took away either Ali's quickness or his jab or made then 75% of what they were Ali woulda been barely a top ten guy in his era probably.

Ali was overrated as all f#ck & among the most basic & simplistic of the great fighters. He was great at hype & selling himself & he as I already mentioned didn't dissapoint in his biggest fights but go watch those other fights & see the trash fights those were.

The only thing that made Ali interesting during most of his fights was the talking he did prior & after them. He entertaining as f#ck outta the ring. Less so in most of his fights in the ring, but people get so invested in a guy it can still make a boring simplistic fight compelling to the fans & haters of that fighter as its happening. See Floyd fights for an example of that. Personnally I appreciate the nuances of Floyd's game & think he has many more tools in his toolbox to win fights, but the majority think he's a boring fighter. Thing is millions still watch him cuz he made himself more relevant out of the ring.

So we are just going to ignore his counters, his brilliant footwork, headmovement, reflexes, ring IQ? And yes, he also had those attributes that you stripped off him such as his ATG jab, chin and all round athleticism.

How many HWs can you think of who could glide around like he did while also jabbing, dipping his head in and out drawing leads and countering?

Id be very interested to know which ATGs you are comparing him to if you think he was basic. Im assuming it will be guys in the lower weights who weighed significantly less than he did.

[Eff Pandas]

So we are just going to ignore his counters, his brilliant footwork, headmovement, reflexes, ring IQ? And yes, he also had those attributes that you stripped off him such as his ATG jab, chin and all round athleticism.

Most of that stuff is attributed more to his quickness then being a separate thing. And I guess ring IQ is legit cuz he did figure out since he was so much quicker than everyone + had that nice jab that he could boringly win so many fights with just those two things. I can respect that to a certain degree, but I'll still diss it as boring all the same as a fan of boxing.

Id be very interested to know which ATGs you are comparing him to if you think he was basic. Im assuming it will be guys in the lower weights who weighed significantly less than he did.

You said HWs. I'm talking HWs & Ali shouldn't be #1. If you are talking all weights than Ali is really f#cked.

I consider Joe Louis #1. His unbeaten streak & reign is the most impressive run at HW in boxing history despite the only thing half the cats these days who mention him know about is the bum of the month club. Louis was on another level to the fighters of his day. Ali probably shoulda been 0-3 to Norton.

[them_apples]

Most of that stuff is attributed more to his quickness then being a separate thing. And I guess ring IQ is legit cuz he did figure out since he was so much quicker than everyone + had that nice jab that he could boringly win so many fights with just those two things. I can respect that to a certain degree, but I'll still diss it as boring all the same as a fan of boxing.



You said HWs. I'm talking HWs & Ali shouldn't be #1. If you are talking all weights than Ali is really f#cked.

I consider Joe Louis #1. His unbeaten streak & reign is the most impressive run at HW in boxing history despite the only thing half the cats these days who mention him know about is the bum of the month club. Louis was on another level to the fighters of his day. Ali probably shoulda been 0-3 to Norton.

Joe Louis is a very good heavyweight but most of the guys he fought came to fight him, and he was a hell of a ****er. I certainly wouldn't count Louis out at his peak, but Ali was a lot more savvy than you are giving him credit for. Ali had a lot of subtleties to his style, you sound like you are describing Larry Holmes more so than Ali. Holmes was fast, accurate, had a good chin etc etc - but Holmes lacked the craft that Ali had. Where as Holmes speed was tried, Ali's speed was effortless and unreadable. In his prime he hit everyone with masterful ease.

[KidDinamita]

Mayweather is better technically then Ali. Ali did a lot of "Mistakes", even Angelo Dundee said that.

How he hooked, jabbing and the right hand is down etc.

IMO though Ali accomplished more. He fought everyone and in a great heavyweight era.

[Tom Cruise]

Most of that stuff is attributed more to his quickness then being a separate thing. And I guess ring IQ is legit cuz he did figure out since he was so much quicker than everyone + had that nice jab that he could boringly win so many fights with just those two things. I can respect that to a certain degree, but I'll still diss it as boring all the same as a fan of boxing.



You said HWs. I'm talking HWs & Ali shouldn't be #1. If you are talking all weights than Ali is really f#cked.

I consider Joe Louis #1. His unbeaten streak & reign is the most impressive run at HW in boxing history despite the only thing half the cats these days who mention him know about is the bum of the month club. Louis was on another level to the fighters of his day. Ali probably shoulda been 0-3 to Norton.

Being that he is my all time favourite HW, I know plenty about Joe Louis. I don’t believe he was greater than Ali, not do I believe he would beat him H2H, though I give him more chance than other people do.

Your dumbing down of Ali’s style is no better than when people try and claim Joe Louis was a plodder with no chin who could be outboxed or outfought. You say his skills were basic and he relied on his athleticism, yet he had one of the longest top level careers of any HW ever, and he continued to get big wins well past the time when he was at his athletic prime.

Ali has better top level wins than Louis and more wins over top 10 contenders (in one of the deepest HW divisions ever no less). He would also have been a stylistic nightmare for Louis who for all his brilliance was prone to giving away rounds and often struggled when the big KAyo didn’t come. Couple that with Ali’s ATG chin, recovery, will to win, if Louis did find that big punch, and it’s near impossible to see Louis as the favourite in this matchup.