Does bigger mean better?

[JAB5239]

In heavyweight boxing does bigger mean better? I have my own opinion on this as I'm sure many of the old timers here know. I'm curious your opinion after reading an article about Wilder-Fury and what Buddy Mcagirt had to say. Here is the gist of it.

"These guys get strength and conditioning coaches who say, 'Oh, I'm going to get you bigger and stronger,'" McGirt said. "OK, but does that mean better?

What is your opinion?

[Rusty Tromboni]

I'd say ask Jerry Quarry, but....


Well, there's your answer.

[aboutfkntime]

In heavyweight boxing does bigger mean better? I have my own opinion on this as I'm sure many of the old timers here know. I'm curious your opinion after reading an article about Wilder-Fury and what Buddy Mcagirt had to say. Here is the gist of it.

"These guys get strength and conditioning coaches who say, 'Oh, I'm going to get you bigger and stronger,'" McGirt said. "OK, but does that mean better?

What is your opinion?

it can do.... but consistently, no

making a fighter bigger, could be better...

but making a fighter better... IS better

Wilder should not have put on the extra weight, and neither should Fury imho

and that gameplan did not require a total change in style, more a change in mental approach

[DeeMoney]

Nm misread question

[billeau2]

In heavyweight boxing does bigger mean better? I have my own opinion on this as I'm sure many of the old timers here know. I'm curious your opinion after reading an article about Wilder-Fury and what Buddy Mcagirt had to say. Here is the gist of it.

"These guys get strength and conditioning coaches who say, 'Oh, I'm going to get you bigger and stronger,'" McGirt said. "OK, but does that mean better?

What is your opinion?

Depends what you are training for Jab. Fighters of the olden times, so to speak always tried to come in light and able to move. This was thought to enable technical ability to flourish.

As fighting made gloves bigger, less rounds, the priorities changed as well. First off, lets talk about the puncher. A puncher has to catch his opponent. 15 rounds is a good amount of time for a puncher to be able to do so... As the rounds got shorter, if fighters were still able to avoid a puncher in the same manner it would have been really a mismatch of sorts, one style would be easier to win with.

Its like MMA when fighters did not know how to deal with being taken to the ground, it was initially a mismatch. As techniques and fighters trained more for specific problems encountered, things balanced out. Today a fighter has to be well rounded to compete in MMA.

The eye fools us. We see Deontay Wilder and think "wow, all he has to do is connect once!" But in fact, a lot of things have to go right for a punch to land with real power. Because fighters today are not as technically savy, and often cannot move and do things that boxers were able to do in the past, the puncher, someone like Wilder has more chances to connect. Yet, when we see Fury, a mobile guy... we can get an idea that Wilder would have had more challenges in another era.

So, none is better. it depends on the fighting environment and always will.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Depends what you are training for Jab. Fighters of the olden times, so to speak always tried to come in light and able to move. This was thought to enable technical ability to flourish.

As fighting made gloves bigger, less rounds, the priorities changed as well. First off, lets talk about the puncher. A puncher has to catch his opponent. 15 rounds is a good amount of time for a puncher to be able to do so... As the rounds got shorter, if fighters were still able to avoid a puncher in the same manner it would have been really a mismatch of sorts, one style would be easier to win with.

Its like MMA when fighters did not know how to deal with being taken to the ground, it was initially a mismatch. As techniques and fighters trained more for specific problems encountered, things balanced out. Today a fighter has to be well rounded to compete in MMA.

The eye fools us. We see Deontay Wilder and think "wow, all he has to do is connect once!" But in fact, a lot of things have to go right for a punch to land with real power. Because fighters today are not as technically savy, and often cannot move and do things that boxers were able to do in the past, the puncher, someone like Wilder has more chances to connect. Yet, when we see Fury, a mobile guy... we can get an idea that Wilder would have had more challenges in another era.

So, none is better. it depends on the fighting environment and always will.

And yet Wilder DID connect on Fury. Twice.

Show me a Heavyweight who put on a better display of pure Boxing than Fury did that night.

Lewis got KO'd by Rahman and McCall.

Ali got decked by guys like Cooper, Wepner and Shavers. He couldn't put away Bugner (who did what besides be big?), but twice stopped little Jerry Quarry and Floyd Patterson who were the most skilled fighters he ever faced.

Louis was stopped by an old Schmeling. He DID catch Conn... but again, SIZE (and experience).

Carnera didn't really beat Loughran (who was also old), but he did far better than many others ever did. And Sharkey actually KO'd Loughran.

Soooo yeah...

Wilder has his *****, but he's absolutely amazing.

To throw you a bone, after putting you in a pickle, I believe Fury would be much better if he were smaller. I think his size is a deficit. Make him Ali's size and you've got yourself a Heavyweight Willie Pep who can punch.

[GhostofDempsey]

It wasn’t better for Primo Carnera. It only took Michael Grant so far.

[billeau2]

And yet Wilder DID connect on Fury. Twice.

Show me a Heavyweight who put on a better display of pure Boxing than Fury did that night.

Lewis got KO'd by Rahman and McCall.

Ali got decked by guys like Cooper, Wepner and Shavers. He couldn't put away Bugner (who did what besides be big?), but twice stopped little Jerry Quarry and Floyd Patterson who were the most skilled fighters he ever faced.

Louis was stopped by an old Schmeling. He DID catch Conn... but again, SIZE (and experience).

Carnera didn't really beat Loughran (who was also old), but he did far better than many others ever did. And Sharkey actually KO'd Loughran.

Soooo yeah...

Wilder has his *****, but he's absolutely amazing.

To throw you a bone, after putting you in a pickle, I believe Fury would be much better if he were smaller. I think his size is a deficit. Make him Ali's size and you've got yourself a Heavyweight Willie Pep who can punch.

Wilder landed, Fury got back up... its perpetual and no one fight defines the interplay because it has to do with probability. And of course punchers are going to connect, but to have that connection work to its full capacity...a KO takes a few moving parts... Kind of like trying to plug a coffee maker in on a boat that is in a whirlpool, where you get the metal prongs to touch a bit, maybe get part of the plug in and sploosh, out it goes again. But when the plug goes in the power is there.

Its better understood when we watch fighters who are not considered great, but have that ability. lamont Brewster is a great example. He stops Golota looking like Dempsey! then starts losing on points to guys... Shanon Briggs who beat a guy with a punch in the last round!

Punchers have to have the opportunities. The old time guys were really smart and knew this, they were thinking with quantum physics, so to speak. It is how BlackBurn trained Louis! Not to worry, not to rush, just do the proper machinations and in any given fight the chances will be created by cutting the ring down.

Louis kept winning doing this. He even beat Conn with the same law of opportunity costs.

Now before you go into some angle about Louis this and that, and anyone else mentioned...try to understand the point about the puncher versus the boxer. The puncher needs more time on average to make sure he gets a certain amount of opportunities. I know you Rusty! You are going to talk about Conn and what he did, and about who beat this guy and Louis losing to schmelling... So please try to understand the skill and techique it takes to be consistent and confident in the way Louis was trained. Thats my point here.

BlackBurn understood the concept of opportunity cost.

[The Old LefHook]

The neighborhood of 5'11". 200 lbs. are still the perfect dimensions for a heavyweight.

Wilder KO'd a bunch of scrubs and got absolutely no one excited with it. Tyson Phony could not punch his way out of a cobweb, and cheated constantly to beat Wilder. He only put his fist halfway inside the glove to increase his reach, enabling himself to punch with a part of the glove filled with less padding.

He constantly rubbed his open glove in Wilder's face. But why believe me, check the replay, halfwits.

Dempsey, Louis, Marciano and Tyson are the most feared and revered heavyweights of all time, and the toughest, I assure you, by buggery. All would KO Fury in a fair fight. Besides that, Phony is a steroid cheater, as the farmer has stepped forward to announce that he sold no wild boar meat to the gypsy. Is Phony comfortable in a ring? Sure, but so what, he cheats constantly.

[Rusty Tromboni]

It wasn’t better for Primo Carnera. It only took Michael Grant so far.

But when have you seen a guy who was that bad make it that far in any other weight division?

Dob you think his fight with Loughran would've been so competitive if they were the same size?