How Did Tyson Fury succeed where Muhammad Ali failed?

[Willow The Wisp]

- - I'd love if AJ, knowing Deyonce and Flubber turned down record purses to fight AJ, told them both to go pound sand in Timbuktu where they belong.

AJ already accomplished more than most in the division, and easily the most ducked heavy champ ever, so all he has to do is take a few more showy fights, say Hrgvic, ect, and retire on a rare fortune that all the other heavies lacked because they was never The Man of the Populace in their moments.

I recon, but every time he takes one of those show pony fights he gets blitzed. Even last minute subs turn the trick. But if he can stay upright for a few of those he might catch Jake Paul in earnings.

[Willow The Wisp]

Just funnin' with ya. Defending the Heavyweight of the century who stumbles is hard labor. I give you credit for your loyalty. Joshua was going to roll right over Fury and Wilder and chew up whoever else dared to drop into the top 10 for the next 6 years. Instead he is the Duane Bobick of the 21st Century. Never quite up to a shot and the actual title.

[QueensburyRules]

I recon, but every time he takes one of those show pony fights he gets blitzed. Even last minute subs turn the trick. But if he can stay upright for a few of those he might catch Jake Paul in earnings.

- - AJ, Wlad the only fighters to both unify and defend their Hvy unifications in the 3rd millennium. Fat Andy and Usyk both won and defended against AJ, but never unified as of yet

Gonna have to try harder to be an utter bore. Maybe take some monkeyman tutoring...

[Dr. Z]

Fury has fought very few in shape prime me that were good. Wilder the same. He hasn't beaten any ring magazine ranked men, and if he has they it was ages ago, and he were old.

If Fury is trying to build a resume close the Frazier's he is failing badly. Frazier fought way better opponents and much younger competition not to mention way more Ring Magazine ranked opponents. Color the two lucky to make what they have.

[Willow The Wisp]

Fury has fought very few in shape prime me that were good. Wilder the same. He hasn't beaten any ring magazine ranked men, and if he has they it was ages ago, and he were old.

If Fury is trying to build a resume close the Frazier's he is failing badly. Frazier fought way better opponents and much younger competition not to mention way more Ring Magazine ranked opponents. Color the two lucky to make what they have.

I totally agree with you! Fury still has some resume business to attend to. His legacy rests on this, and will by association be affected by what Wilder has left in the tank too. At least Wilder is going for the jugular in taking on "best of the rest" ex title holder Ruiz.

On January 17, 2015, Deontay Wilder won the coveted WBC Heavyweight World Title belt by breazing past titleholder Bermane Stiverne over 12 rounds. He then defended that title 10 times, including an epic draw with co-champion Tyson Fury.

Later that year, Tyson Fury lifted the "Unified" (read as: Some of the plastic belts -or- More than one), as well as the 2,710 year old Linial Heavyweight Championship of the World (The One REAL title) from era- dominating Wladimir Klitschko on November 28, 2015. He did so by comprehensively outboxing the great Ukrainian (64-3-0). He then took an extended sabbatical due to health problems for which time away from the sport was required.

During this timeframe, two other contenders wore one or more of the many other "world title" belts as well.
Joseph Parker held the WBO belt for a short time, and Britain's Anthony Joshua held the IBF, WBA, WBO as well as the minor IBO belts for a time, winning the IBF belt from untested prospect Charles Martin (who himself had won that vacant strap when another untested prospect, Wyacheslav Glazkov injured his right knee, quit and never fought again); and won the vacant WBA and IBO straps in a great battle with retired ex-Champion Klitschko, who was seeking his "one fight too many". Finally he aquired the WBO bauble from contender / beltholder Parker in a cautious "unification" 12 rounder. Joshua managed to defend those collective belts a total of 6 times before losing the belts, reclaiming then losing them again, and failing in a 2nd bid to get them back.

So with a connection to The Ring Ratings panel in days past, I appreciate them being cited as the standard still, in 2022; and yes, the work quality that any of the main players in the division have carried out in the past decade can be critiqued as you wish; But
For two of these kings, Like only Tunney, Marciano and Lewis before them, Fury and Wilder have managed at least a draw against every man they ever fought. For now anyway.

So who are the best fighters active between 2015 and 2022 that the "Three Kings" who managed 5 or more successful defenses (which excludes beltholders Stiverne, Martin, Parker, Ruiz and Usyk) had Not taken on?
For Example:
Of those listed below,
Tyson Fury beat: 10 of them, going 12-0-1

Deontay Wilder beat: 11 of them, going 12-2-1

Anthony Joshua beat: 11 of them, going 11-3-0

During the last 7 -10 years, the "Post-Klitschko era", the best Heavyweights on the scene rank "Something like" this:

Tyson Fury
Deontay Wilder
Oleksandr Usyk
Joe Joyce
Anthony Joshua
Andy Ruiz Jr
Luis Ortiz
Wladimir Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
Dillian Whyte
Filip Hrgovic
Jarrell Miller
Joseph Parker
Derrick Chisora
Kubrat Pulev
Daniel Dubois
Otto Wallin
Michael Hunter
Charles Martin
Frank Sanchez
Chris Arreola
Martin Bakole
Johann Duhaupaus
Zhilei Zhang
Robert Helenius
Bermane Stiverne
Carlos Takam
Hughie Fury
Gerald Washington
Bryant Jennings
Dominic Breazeale
Oscar Rivas
Agit Kabayel
Zhan Kossobutskiy
Adam Kownacki
Eric Molina
David Haye
Christian Hammer
Aleksander Ustinov
Malik Scott
Tony Yoka
Artur Szpilka
Erkan Teper
David Price
Lucas Browne
Mariusz Wach
Arslanbek Makhmudov
Ali Eran Demirezen
Simon Kean
Efe Ajagba
Nathan Gorman
Murat Gassiev
Ivan Dychko
Tomasz Adamek
David Allen
Tom Schwartz
Mahmoud Charr
Junior Fa
Vladyslav Sirenko
Francesco Pianeta
Evgeny Romanov
Kingpin Johnson
Jared Anderson
Petar Milas
Jermaine Franklin
Lukasz Rozanski
Demsey McKean
Derric Rossy
Stephan Shaw
Mike Balogun
Viktor Vykhryst
Amir Mansour
Jerry Forrest
Andrey Fedosov
Travis Kauffman
George Arias
Trevor Bryan
Sergey Kuzmin
Joey Dawejko
Jonathan Rice
Dillon Carman
Izuagbe Ugonoh
Michael Polite Coffee

[Dr. Z]

I totally agree with you! Fury still has some resume business to attend to. His legacy rests on this, and will by association be affected by what Wilder has left in the tank too. At least Wilder is going for the jugular in taking on "best of the rest" ex title holder Ruiz.

On January 17, 2015, Deontay Wilder won the coveted WBC Heavyweight World Title belt by breazing past titleholder Bermane Stiverne over 12 rounds. He then defended that title 10 times, including an epic draw with co-champion Tyson Fury.

Later that year, Tyson Fury lifted the "Unified" (read as: Some of the plastic belts -or- More than one), as well as the 2,710 year old Linial Heavyweight Championship of the World (The One REAL title) from era- dominating Wladimir Klitschko on November 28, 2015. He did so by comprehensively outboxing the great Ukrainian (64-3-0). He then took an extended sabbatical due to health problems for which time away from the sport was required.

During this timeframe, two other contenders wore one or more of the many other "world title" belts as well.
Joseph Parker held the WBO belt for a short time, and Britain's Anthony Joshua held the IBF, WBA, WBO as well as the minor IBO belts for a time, winning the IBF belt from untested prospect Charles Martin (who himself had won that vacant strap when another untested prospect, Wyacheslav Glazkov injured his right knee, quit and never fought again); and won the vacant WBA and IBO straps in a great battle with retired ex-Champion Klitschko, who was seeking his "one fight too many". Finally he aquired the WBO bauble from contender / beltholder Parker in a cautious "unification" 12 rounder. Joshua managed to defend those collective belts a total of 6 times before losing the belts, reclaiming then losing them again, and failing in a 2nd bid to get them back.

So with a connection to The Ring Ratings panel in days past, I appreciate them being cited as the standard still, in 2022; and yes, the work quality that any of the main players in the division have carried out in the past decade can be critiqued as you wish; But
For two of these kings, Like only Tunney, Marciano and Lewis before them, Fury and Wilder have managed at least a draw against every man they ever fought. For now anyway.

So who are the best fighters active between 2015 and 2022 that the "Three Kings" who managed 5 or more successful defenses (which excludes beltholders Stiverne, Martin, Parker, Ruiz and Usyk) had Not taken on?
For Example:
Of those listed below,
Tyson Fury beat: 10 of them, going 12-0-1

Deontay Wilder beat: 11 of them, going 12-2-1

Anthony Joshua beat: 11 of them, going 11-3-0

During the last 7 -10 years, the "Post-Klitschko era", the best Heavyweights on the scene rank "Something like" this:

Tyson Fury
Deontay Wilder
Oleksandr Usyk
Joe Joyce
Anthony Joshua
Andy Ruiz Jr
Luis Ortiz
Wladimir Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
Dillian Whyte
Filip Hrgovic
Jarrell Miller
Joseph Parker
Derrick Chisora
Kubrat Pulev
Daniel Dubois
Otto Wallin
Michael Hunter
Charles Martin
Frank Sanchez
Chris Arreola
Martin Bakole
Johann Duhaupaus
Zhilei Zhang
Robert Helenius
Bermane Stiverne
Carlos Takam
Hughie Fury
Gerald Washington
Bryant Jennings
Dominic Breazeale
Oscar Rivas
Agit Kabayel
Zhan Kossobutskiy
Adam Kownacki
Eric Molina
David Haye
Christian Hammer
Aleksander Ustinov
Malik Scott
Tony Yoka
Artur Szpilka
Erkan Teper
David Price
Lucas Browne
Mariusz Wach
Arslanbek Makhmudov
Ali Eran Demirezen
Simon Kean
Efe Ajagba
Nathan Gorman
Murat Gassiev
Ivan Dychko
Tomasz Adamek
David Allen
Tom Schwartz
Mahmoud Charr
Junior Fa
Vladyslav Sirenko
Francesco Pianeta
Evgeny Romanov
Kingpin Johnson
Jared Anderson
Petar Milas
Jermaine Franklin
Lukasz Rozanski
Demsey McKean
Derric Rossy
Stephan Shaw
Mike Balogun
Viktor Vykhryst
Amir Mansour
Jerry Forrest
Andrey Fedosov
Travis Kauffman
George Arias
Trevor Bryan
Sergey Kuzmin
Joey Dawejko
Jonathan Rice
Dillon Carman
Izuagbe Ugonoh
Michael Polite Coffee

That's a lot of names! But very few of these wins we vs. top ten the ring magazine opponents. The talent on the way up in deeper and better than the champions, and who they fought in my opinion. See my top 15 heavyweight prospect lists for a scouting review below:

http://jeetwin360.com/forums/b...ight-prospects

[QueensburyRules]

I totally agree with you! Fury still has some resume business to attend to. His legacy rests on this, and will by association be affected by what Wilder has left in the tank too. At least Wilder is going for the jugular in taking on "best of the rest" ex title holder Ruiz.

On January 17, 2015, Deontay Wilder won the coveted WBC Heavyweight World Title belt by breazing past titleholder Bermane Stiverne over 12 rounds. He then defended that title 10 times, including an epic draw with co-champion Tyson Fury.

Later that year, Tyson Fury lifted the "Unified" (read as: Some of the plastic belts -or- More than one), as well as the 2,710 year old Linial Heavyweight Championship of the World (The One REAL title) from era- dominating Wladimir Klitschko on November 28, 2015. He did so by comprehensively outboxing the great Ukrainian (64-3-0). He then took an extended sabbatical due to health problems for which time away from the sport was required.

During this timeframe, two other contenders wore one or more of the many other "world title" belts as well.
Joseph Parker held the WBO belt for a short time, and Britain's Anthony Joshua held the IBF, WBA, WBO as well as the minor IBO belts for a time, winning the IBF belt from untested prospect Charles Martin (who himself had won that vacant strap when another untested prospect, Wyacheslav Glazkov injured his right knee, quit and never fought again); and won the vacant WBA and IBO straps in a great battle with retired ex-Champion Klitschko, who was seeking his "one fight too many". Finally he aquired the WBO bauble from contender / beltholder Parker in a cautious "unification" 12 rounder. Joshua managed to defend those collective belts a total of 6 times before losing the belts, reclaiming then losing them again, and failing in a 2nd bid to get them back.

So with a connection to The Ring Ratings panel in days past, I appreciate them being cited as the standard still, in 2022; and yes, the work quality that any of the main players in the division have carried out in the past decade can be critiqued as you wish; But
For two of these kings, Like only Tunney, Marciano and Lewis before them, Fury and Wilder have managed at least a draw against every man they ever fought. For now anyway.

So who are the best fighters active between 2015 and 2022 that the "Three Kings" who managed 5 or more successful defenses (which excludes beltholders Stiverne, Martin, Parker, Ruiz and Usyk) had Not taken on?
For Example:
Of those listed below,
Tyson Fury beat: 10 of them, going 12-0-1

Deontay Wilder beat: 11 of them, going 12-2-1

Anthony Joshua beat: 11 of them, going 11-3-0

During the last 7 -10 years, the "Post-Klitschko era", the best Heavyweights on the scene rank "Something like" this:

Tyson Fury
Deontay Wilder
Oleksandr Usyk
Joe Joyce
Anthony Joshua
Andy Ruiz Jr
Luis Ortiz
Wladimir Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
Dillian Whyte
Filip Hrgovic
Jarrell Miller
Joseph Parker
Derrick Chisora
Kubrat Pulev
Daniel Dubois
Otto Wallin
Michael Hunter
Charles Martin
Frank Sanchez
Chris Arreola
Martin Bakole
Johann Duhaupaus
Zhilei Zhang
Robert Helenius
Bermane Stiverne
Carlos Takam
Hughie Fury
Gerald Washington
Bryant Jennings
Dominic Breazeale
Oscar Rivas
Agit Kabayel
Zhan Kossobutskiy
Adam Kownacki
Eric Molina
David Haye
Christian Hammer
Aleksander Ustinov
Malik Scott
Tony Yoka
Artur Szpilka
Erkan Teper
David Price
Lucas Browne
Mariusz Wach
Arslanbek Makhmudov
Ali Eran Demirezen
Simon Kean
Efe Ajagba
Nathan Gorman
Murat Gassiev
Ivan Dychko
Tomasz Adamek
David Allen
Tom Schwartz
Mahmoud Charr
Junior Fa
Vladyslav Sirenko
Francesco Pianeta
Evgeny Romanov
Kingpin Johnson
Jared Anderson
Petar Milas
Jermaine Franklin
Lukasz Rozanski
Demsey McKean
Derric Rossy
Stephan Shaw
Mike Balogun
Viktor Vykhryst
Amir Mansour
Jerry Forrest
Andrey Fedosov
Travis Kauffman
George Arias
Trevor Bryan
Sergey Kuzmin
Joey Dawejko
Jonathan Rice
Dillon Carman
Izuagbe Ugonoh
Michael Polite Coffee

- - Can blah, blah all you wish, but bottom line is Fury bricked his shorts at his apex by spitting his dummy. Came back against the low hanging fruit of Haymon protected Deyonce. The irony of Haymon picking the low hanging fruit of the freshly deblubbered Fury for Deyonce in another peanut purse fight while both blatantly ducked the Riches of AJ is their shared legacy.

That's OK, Ali ducked the Foreman rematch as he alarmingly disintegrated after Zaire, so probably a smart move.

[Willow The Wisp]

That's a lot of names! But very few of these wins we vs. top ten the ring magazine opponents. The talent on the way up in deeper and better than the champions, and who they fought in my opinion. See my top 15 heavyweight prospect lists for a scouting review below:

http://jeetwin360.com/forums/b...ight-prospects

Thanks for the link Z!

[Willow The Wisp]

- - Can blah, blah all you wish, but bottom line is Fury bricked his shorts at his apex by spitting his dummy. Came back against the low hanging fruit of Haymon protected Deyonce. The irony of Haymon picking the low hanging fruit of the freshly deblubbered Fury for Deyonce in another peanut purse fight while both blatantly ducked the Riches of AJ is their shared legacy.

That's OK, Ali ducked the Foreman rematch as he alarmingly disintegrated after Zaire, so probably a smart move.

I suppose. (??). But the great news is that the Fury/Wilder/Usyk/Ruiz/Joshua era isn't over yet, and the next salvo will iron some of these questions out. I'm very keen to see if Wilder fares better than a soul snatching KO loss and a bicycle race nod over a grossly obese version of Ruiz. With Martin, Parker, Takam, etc all now in the stepping stone category; it's to Ruiz alone to represent Joshua's best work; so Wilder is presented with a chance to fully seal the deal as the 2nd best of the newest era of heavyweight boxing. And again, "Ducking" in boxing is a charge against management; never against the fighter. Personally, I think we might have witnessed a true beating had Hearn-Joshua courageously pushed forward with a "let him take whatever he wants" fight against Miller. But after that punk shove, they were plotting a way out. ....in the same spirit of humorous flippancy.

[ShoulderRoll]

Obviously Ali fought in a much tougher era.

Mentally fragile bodybuilders like Anthony Joshua wouldn't even sniff a belt back then.