Why not Holmes over Ali?

[them_apples]

Larry has the better record under 35.

He beat more contenders in the ring ****zine's top ten*

Holmes had the best all time jab. Like Ali he had a good right cross. Unlike Ali, he had a decent body attack, a left hook, and uppercut! A superior skilled fighter, Larry was. Ali was more limited in attack.

He was not floored by non top ten fighters! Ali was down from them quite a few times . IMO Holmes had a slightly better chin.

Holmes did not rest on the ropes, gas or or punch himself out as an under 40 year old fighter. Ali did.

Ali had major issues with good jabbers ( Jones, Norton, Young, Lyle, Holmes ) at all stages of his career from multiple men. Hmmm, Holmes had a great jab.



But, but, but Ali beat Foreman! Ah yes, Forman ducked Homles in the 70's and 90's. But he fought Jimmy Young. And Young whipped him, and was ROBBED on the official score cards vs Ali. Sub in Holmes for Young and Boxing has a new #1 fighter for sure.

But, but, but, Holmes beat an old Ali. Yes-- he did. Looking at the match Ali did not win one 30 second segment of the nine rounds. Holmes did not want to hurt Ali, but he would have ... Dundee prevented him from being knocked out by TKO or KO. The fight ended with Ali one his stool.

So how is #1? Fan's can clutch at Joe Louis. But putting him aside, the real question is this. What year can Holmes beat Ali? 1980 we know. 1979? yep. 1978? Very likely. 1977? Well Let's say Ali fought Holmes then. Who do you like? I say Larry does a Jimmy Young and ten some on Ali wins a SD with one judges card being suspect for Ali the other two clearly going for Holmes. Holmes via split decision.


Ali kicked Holmes out of his camps in the mid 1970's because Holmes was too fast for him. That is the reason. Those are the facts. Those gym wars happened. Think about that.

So what did Ali do clearly better than Holmes? I'll be fair. READY? Ali was a better clincher in the ring and a much better talker outside of it. And Ali tended to be gifted on the cards, while Holmes wasn't.

So what is your take on this question? I often leanr the most from knowledgeable fans who disagree with me, and give me some words or facts I did not think about.​

Holmes didn’t have the number 1 jab of all time. Thats a myth and I am not sure who keeps parroting this myth. People seem to just say it for the hell of it.

There is also footage of Ali sparring Holmes (a few full rounds NOT the rumble in the jungle footage) Holmes isn’t too fast for him. By the time Holmes was sparring Ali, Ali is on the comeback. Holmes is a good fighter, and his style perhaps gives Ali trouble. But prime for prime he’s not better than Ali.

if he got kicked out its because be wasn’t the style Ali needed for his upcoming fight. Walcott got booted from Louis’ camp for the same reasons, and he got knocked out.

what is Ali better at?

he’s got better legs in his prime and he is a smoother more elusive fighter. His punches are harder to see coming. Holmes is trying so hard to be faster than Ali he’s setting fireworks off every time he punches. Ali is as smooth as butter you can never see his shots coming.

Holmes does damn jumping jacks every time he jabs, Ali just drops his in like a laser effortlessly.

Also which better fighters did Holmes beat? He squeaked a decision over old Norton and then was the first guy to beat Cooney. What else did he do?

his greatest accomplishment is probably getting robbed vs a prime Holyfield. I actually thought he won that fight. By a hair

[Bronson66]

Holmes didnâÂÂt have the number 1 jab of all time. Thats a myth and I am not sure who keeps parroting this myth. People seem to just say it for the hell of it.

There is also footage of Ali sparring Holmes (a few full rounds NOT the rumble in the jungle footage) Holmes isnâÂÂt too fast for him. By the time Holmes was sparring Ali, Ali is on the comeback. Holmes is a good fighter, and his style perhaps gives Ali trouble. But prime for prime heâÂÂs not better than Ali.

if he got kicked out its because be wasnâÂÂt the style Ali needed for his upcoming fight. Walcott got booted from Louisâ camp for the same reasons, and he got knocked out.

what is Ali better at?

heâÂÂs got better legs in his prime and he is a smoother more elusive fighter. His punches are harder to see coming. Holmes is trying so hard to be faster than Ali heâÂÂs setting fireworks off every time he punches. Ali is as smooth as butter you can never see his shots coming.

Holmes does damn jumping jacks every time he jabs, Ali just drops his in like a laser effortlessly.

Also which better fighters did Holmes beat? He squeaked a decision over old Norton and then was the first guy to beat Cooney. What else did he do?

his greatest accomplishment is probably getting robbed vs a prime Holyfield. I actually thought he won that fight. By a hair

"Four years of boxing with him,I know him
When he spit,I knew he was getting ready to spit.
I knew him.
And I didn't want to go on to be labelled as just a sparring partner.
I didn't want to be just a sparring partner.
I wanted to be a sparring partner to learn.
And I did.
I learned with Joe Frazier,I learned with Earnie Shavers,I learned with a lot of heavyweight contenders.
But I wanted to get out on my own and make some money__ not 5 hundred dollars a week."

Larry Holmes Chapter 15 Page 287 " Facing Ali".By Stephen Brunt.

[QueensburyRules]

I live in a cul-de-sac. Queenie would be drunk, unable to find his way out and just keep driving in circles until he ran out of gas or the cops showed up. Whichever happened first.

- - I see the resident drunks U serve love U...priceless...

[Bronson66]

- - I see the resident drunks U serve love U...priceless...

Why do you post here? You've no interest in, or knowledge of boxing.

Surely you would feel more at home with other R-- E--T--A--R-D--S, on some silly juvenile forum?
You contribute nothing,and just post gibberish, aren't you an adult?
Why don't you try behaving like one for once?

[JAB5239]

Ok, so I ordered the DVD, not the book. It came today. I've re-ordered the book and should be here sunday. A lesson for me to take my time.

[Dr. Z]

Believe me, I know. But if it's not I will apologize to you and put that apology in my signature. After that I will give you the option to ask me to leave and will honor it.

If it is though, are you willing to do the same? This thread turned to crap because you have insisted you're right about this and refuse to believe anyone else even though you don't know. You've guessed, and posted things like that video that had nothing behind it. I KNOW it's not in Holmes autobiography and I've scoured the internet coming up empty on what you've claimed.

But if you think you're right you can man up and agree to this deal. I probably wouldnt ask you to leave, but I would most definitely make you put an apology in your sig. Or you can just admit to being wrong now. Either way the book will be here tomorrow.

I don't exactly know how to react to this. You seem to be willing to extend a hand, but you are saying if is not a video I posted ( I said it the book, not a web link ) and you can't find some obscure passage on the web, so therefore it did not happen.

If I am right, you are wrong just post the text and after that you can say you're sorry. If not I will say I am wrong and do the same..

I do not think it is in the DVD, but it is in the book. Hopefully Queenie isn't your mail man.

[JAB5239]

I don't exactly know how to react to this. You seem to be willing to extend a hand, but you are saying if is not a video I posted ( I said it the book, not a web link ) and you can't find some obscure passage on the web, so therefore it did not happen.

If I am right, you are wrong just post the text and after that you can say you're sorry. If not I will say I am wrong and do the same..

I do not think it is in the DVD, but it is in the book. Hopefully Queenie isn't your mail man.

6th post of this thread you posted a video saying here is what I found after I had said it wasn't in Holmes autobiography or other sources I looked up. Bronson says he has the book and gave us the page number. I have no reason not to believe him. But since you tried claiming that I'm "framing you" and don't do my own research I said the hell with it. $15 is a small price to pay for a book I'll enjoy and get to prove you wrong once again. I'm not extending a hand, just making a point that if I'm wrong I'd man up and take my medicine. You've been wrong about SO many things in this thread trying to make your agenda sound plausible it's laughable. I don't care if you take the deal or not. I'm willing to take my chances though.....are you? Or you can just admit you are wrong.

[JT1]

If lying were an Olympic sport we'd have a multiple gold medalist (OP) here.

The GOAT even.

[QueensburyRules]

Why do you post here? You've no interest in, or knowledge of boxing.

Surely you would feel more at home with other R-- E--T--A--R-D--S, on some silly juvenile forum?
You contribute nothing,and just post gibberish, aren't you an adult?
Why don't you try behaving like one for once?

- - It's part of my save the French snails campaign...

[QueensburyRules]

If lying were an Olympic sport we'd have a multiple gold medalist (OP) here.

The GOAT even.

- - Two of the protagonists go back to the poisonous East something forum, now carrying their feud here.

OP made a ****** unsupportable topic and now the shyte is piled a mile high... a long time ago...