was dempsey a bum?

[RockyMarcianofan00]

If someone says that he is not as easy to hit as people think, that doesn't automatically mean that they meant that he was hard to hit, just harder than people thought. Anyway, it doesn't matter because Dempsey was very hard to hit, much more than Marciano. He also was a better puncher, throwing bombs at close range (6in to a foot), unlike Marciano's wide punched telegraphed from a mile away. Dempsey more than likely would stop him quick because Marciano is a slow starter, and Dempsey is the fastest starter in history. IMO, Marciano has little chance of withstanding Dempsey's onslaught.

Dempsey wasn't as hard to hit as you say, Dempsey's defense was his offense, and its one thing to see the punch and know its coming but its another to get hit by it...Ya see for being such a telegraph puncher you'd think at least one person in his career would have gotten it and figured it out, except Marciano wasn't as telegraphed as you say and knew when to mix it up and not do the same old thing...He would outsmart and outlast his opponents....Dempsey was a hard, big puncher but IMO his swings were just as wild as Marciano's maybe more so...I like Dempsey he's actually one of my more favorite fighters but look at some footage thats available....Dempsey swung big and his best defense was his punching...IMO Marciano could stand toe to toe with Dempsey and in the end outlast him...

Dempsey usually got bad after 6 rounds, Marciano's fresh for 15.......yea

[butterfly1964]

Dempsey wasn't as hard to hit as you say, Dempsey's defense was his offense, and its one thing to see the punch and know its coming but its another to get hit by it...Ya see for being such a telegraph puncher you'd think at least one person in his career would have gotten it and figured it out, except Marciano wasn't as telegraphed as you say and knew when to mix it up and not do the same old thing...He would outsmart and outlast his opponents....Dempsey was a hard, big puncher but IMO his swings were just as wild as Marciano's maybe more so...I like Dempsey he's actually one of my more favorite fighters but look at some footage thats available....Dempsey swung big and his best defense was his punching...IMO Marciano could stand toe to toe with Dempsey and in the end outlast him...

Dempsey usually got bad after 6 rounds, Marciano's fresh for 15.......yea

Dempsey did not swung big, his punches were some of the shortest I've ever seen anybody throw, even shorter than Louis'.

And again, nobody "figured it out" because mostly his competition was less than great. And the good fighters he fought mostly had weak chins, so usually it only took a couple of good punches to finish them off.

If Marciano stood toe to toe with Dempsey he would be brutally taken out without a doubt. If he is to win, he has to cover up and survive the first seven rounds if he is to have any chance. Marciano's chin is not good enough to take continuous flush shots from Dempsey.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Dempsey did not swung big, his punches were some of the shortest I've ever seen anybody throw, even shorter than Louis'.

And again, nobody "figured it out" because mostly his competition was less than great. And the good fighters he fought mostly had weak chins, so usually it only took a couple of good punches to finish them off.

If Marciano stood toe to toe with Dempsey he would be brutally taken out without a doubt. If he is to win, he has to cover up and survive the first seven rounds if he is to have any chance. Marciano's chin is not good enough to take continuous flush shots from Dempsey.

Marciano's chin is rated very high top10 with Ali, Jake Lamatta, etc so don't start telling me he can't take a shot...

Marciano fought guys like Charles and Walcott who were some of the best tacticians around, and there chins weren't weak...Walcott had a decent chin so that argument is thrown out the window...

And your going to tell me Dempsey didn't swing wide?



in this same footage you can see what I mean by "his defense is his offense"
?????

notice I never said Dempsey threw Wildly, just wide...

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Dempsey's punches weren't wide in the sense that he jumped across the ring throwing a punch, but wide in the sense that he left him self open.....granted that when he was in close he was a compact fighter, and did throw well....

[butterfly1964]

Marciano's chin is rated very high top10 with Ali, Jake Lamatta, etc so don't start telling me he can't take a shot...

Marciano fought guys like Charles and Walcott who were some of the best tacticians around, and there chins weren't weak...Walcott had a decent chin so that argument is thrown out the window...

And your going to tell me Dempsey didn't swing wide?



in this same footage you can see what I mean by "his defense is his offense"
?????

notice I never said Dempsey threw Wildly, just wide...

Jess Willard's chin is much better than Marciano's, and Dempsey had little trouble putting him down. If Marciano took the same shots that Willard did on July 4, 1919, he would be down a lot as well, maybe even out.

And Charles and Walcott's chins were not the best. Both were ko'd many times in their carrers, therefore they had bad chins.

Watching that clip, I saw him throw either short punches or straight punches, so I don't see where you're trying to go with this.

[butterfly1964]

Dempsey's punches weren't wide in the sense that he jumped across the ring throwing a punch, but wide in the sense that he left him self open.....granted that when he was in close he was a compact fighter, and did throw well....

Left himself open? Maybe he did that when he new the guy wouldn't hit back. Watch the beginning of the Willard fight. When he threw a punch, he always covered himself up well, and bobbed in and out of trouble. When Willard was a bloody mess and was basically defenseless, it didn't matter.

[SABBATH]

Left himself open? Maybe he did that when he new the guy wouldn't hit back. Watch the beginning of the Willard fight. When he threw a punch, he always covered himself up well, and bobbed in and out of trouble. When Willard was a bloody mess and was basically defenseless, it didn't matter.

This clip was brought up on another thread and it applies here. Keeping in mind this is a sparring session and Dempsey was likely using it to work on defence you can see from the brief footage that he has decent head movement and weaves and slips punches well. His chin is tucked in and he moves well on the balls of his feet. He didn't just wade in wide open and throw punches.

[hemichromis]

Dempsey wasn't as hard to hit as you say, Dempsey's defense was his offense, and its one thing to see the punch and know its coming but its another to get hit by it...Ya see for being such a telegraph puncher you'd think at least one person in his career would have gotten it and figured it out, except Marciano wasn't as telegraphed as you say and knew when to mix it up and not do the same old thing...He would outsmart and outlast his opponents....Dempsey was a hard, big puncher but IMO his swings were just as wild as Marciano's maybe more so...I like Dempsey he's actually one of my more favorite fighters but look at some footage thats available....Dempsey swung big and his best defense was his punching...IMO Marciano could stand toe to toe with Dempsey and in the end outlast him...

Dempsey usually got bad after 6 rounds, Marciano's fresh for 15.......yea

you really think these 2 would go more than 6 rounds?

marciano was quite good at not getting hit but sempsey threw so many powerful punches i don'#t see marcaino lasting more than 5 rounds even if his chin was the best ever!

it's a styles thing marciano goes slow saving his energy fro when the opponent it tired, dempsey comes in all guns blazing and knocks you out!

[Kid Achilles]

Dempsey was clearly slicker and a shorter puncher than Marciano. I love both but Dempsey had a more technical style and was much quicker of hand and foot. Dempsey was more of a boxerpuncher and in the first round of Willard he chose to punch, once he hurt Willard bad early on. In the later (as in the rounds after the first lol) rounds of that fight he boxes.

[butterfly1964]

This clip was brought up on another thread and it applies here. Keeping in mind this is a sparring session and Dempsey was likely using it to work on defence you can see from the brief footage that he has decent head movement and weaves and slips punches well. His chin is tucked in and he moves well on the balls of his feet. He didn't just wade in wide open and throw punches.

Yeah, I saw that lots of times. Dempsey had brilliant headmovement. He rolled as well as ducked and slipped. Dempsey definetely had the better defense.