was dempsey a bum?

[Yogi]

WAS?!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think so, and I'd tell anybody who'd listen my opinion that I think Butterfly is easily the most improved poster on here from the time he signed up 'til now. He may still post the occasional head scratcher, but I've seen a VERY noticable improvement in his openmindness when it comes to fighters from an era different than Ali's own, and I certainly don't see the frequent "glass chin", "bum", etc., comments from him much anymore, if even at all...

Butterfly's a good poster nowadays.

[hhascup]

1st of all, someone said that Dempsey was stopped by Flynn in the 1st round, which is true, BUT it has been stated that he actually was paid to take a dive. Dempsey had one of the best chins ever.

As far as Ali's defense goes, Nat Fleischer rated his defense #2 all-time. The only boxer he put in front of Ali was Jack Johnson. I E-Mailed Cox on that and told me that he never knew about that.

It's very hard to rate boxers, I try to do it by all the facts. I count there record, who they fought and when they fought them. I also look at the films of each of them and I listen to what other boxing experts have to say.

I talked to Bert Sugar several weeks ago and I asked him how come his rating in 1991 are different then what he has today. He said, because I listen to people.

[butterfly1964]

I love reading these old threads

It shows how ignorant Butterfly was...



look at the ignorance...I'm glad butterfly has matured since then...

Maybe I exaggerated a bit out of the heat of the moment, but I still stand by that post. Marciano would have little chance against Dempsey, and Marciano was easy to hit and very slow and wild.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Maybe I exaggerated a bit out of the heat of the moment, but I still stand by that post. Marciano would have little chance against Dempsey, and Marciano was easy to hit and very slow and wild.

Your still pretty ignorant at times,...watch some films, even your favorite fighters trainer, Angelo Dundee, saw that Marciano wasn't as easy to hit...Hell even Ali himself admitted during the tape of the superfight that Marciano was difficult to hit and he even went as far to say that if both were in there prime it would be a fight to see....

Marciano's not nearly as easy to hit as you think, and honestly look at some of his fights he's not that slow, he just throws with alot of force which makes it look slower.....So that post is garbage...

[butterfly1964]

Your still pretty ignorant at times,...watch some films, even your favorite fighters trainer, Angelo Dundee, saw that Marciano wasn't as easy to hit...Hell even Ali himself admitted during the tape of the superfight that Marciano was difficult to hit and he even went as far to say that if both were in there prime it would be a fight to see....

Marciano's not nearly as easy to hit as you think, and honestly look at some of his fights he's not that slow, he just throws with alot of force which makes it look slower.....So that post is garbage...

Nevertheless, he wasn't exactly a defensive wizard, and he was not that hard to hit. Putting a lot of force in your punches means nothing. Didn't Joe Louis put a lot of force in his punches? Didn't Tyson? And they still were fast, so try again.

And I'll stand by my post that Dempsey was the better fighter. He was a better puncher, faster hands, faster feet, better head movement, and had better all-round boxing skills. And I'm sure if they fought Dempsey would hand him his behind on a silver platter.

[The Noose]

I dont understand the point of this thread really.

What is the ****ing point of trying to make Marciano look **** by ONLY talking about how slow he was??
Its like criticizing Ali for not being short!

Why not acknowldge that he was LIKE IT OR NOT a great heavyweight champion, a nightmare of a pressure fighter who WOULD give any heavyweight in history a very tough time in the ring.

The fact that Marciano was such a small heavyweight, yet one of the toughest, durable, hard hitters ever means he deserves some respect.

[SABBATH]

I have an old issue of The Ring from Jan of 1982 lying around here somewhere, and I can remember doing a count of the fighters listed in their monthly rating and found that their were, I think, 17 different fighters that are now a member of the HOF (or will be, in the case of Holmes & Hearns)...And the great thing about that is every single one of them were at or very near their absolute primes as fighters, save maybe Duran, who was still in the midst of representing himself as a great fighter no matter what career stage he was in.

The depth of boxing at the time was just incredible (whether as a whole or per most of the divisions), says I, and I'm by far from the only one who'll think that.

The 80's gave us Mr. T, Steve Guttenberg, Molly Ringwald, Wham, Cindy Lauper, Culture Club, Growing Pains, Family Ties, Whose The Boss, designer jeans, spandex and the Rubik's cube.

If it weren't for the quality of boxing during that decade I would have jumped off a ****in' cliff.

[butterfly1964]

The 80's gave us Mr. T, Steve Guttenberg, Molly Ringwald, Wham, Cindy Lauper, Culture Club, Growing Pains, Family Ties, Whose The Boss, designer jeans, spandex and the Rubik's cube.

If it weren't for the quality of boxing during that decade I would have jumped off a ****in' cliff.

What's wrong with Mr. T, fool?

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Nevertheless, he wasn't exactly a defensive wizard, and he was not that hard to hit. Putting a lot of force in your punches means nothing. Didn't Joe Louis put a lot of force in his punches? Didn't Tyson? And they still were fast, so try again.

And I'll stand by my post that Dempsey was the better fighter. He was a better puncher, faster hands, faster feet, better head movement, and had better all-round boxing skills. And I'm sure if they fought Dempsey would hand him his behind on a silver platter.

You don't listen, almost everyone that fought him stated after the fight that he's not as easy to hit as the films would suggest...His body is constantly in that crouch and moving..Mind you he's not dancing around the ring for bobbing and weaving but his lateral movement made it easy for him to dodge and counter....

I don't think Dempsey would win....

[butterfly1964]

You don't listen, almost everyone that fought him stated after the fight that he's not as easy to hit as the films would suggest...His body is constantly in that crouch and moving..Mind you he's not dancing around the ring for bobbing and weaving but his lateral movement made it easy for him to dodge and counter....

I don't think Dempsey would win....

If someone says that he is not as easy to hit as people think, that doesn't automatically mean that they meant that he was hard to hit, just harder than people thought. Anyway, it doesn't matter because Dempsey was very hard to hit, much more than Marciano. He also was a better puncher, throwing bombs at close range (6in to a foot), unlike Marciano's wide punched telegraphed from a mile away. Dempsey more than likely would stop him quick because Marciano is a slow starter, and Dempsey is the fastest starter in history. IMO, Marciano has little chance of withstanding Dempsey's onslaught.