World without Joe Louis

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

I look at jack as having to walk a muddied path and the entire time he complained about the mud.

Louis heard of this muddy path and said to him self the faster this gets paved the fewer the people that have to walk through the mud.

ali may have followed in johnsons foot steps but the path he walked on was one paved by Louis.

Sully, I dont recall Jack complainng about anything until the Gov. slapped him with the Mann Act. He followed Burns around the world for a shot, purchasing his own ring side ticket to call him out during the fights. Thats gumption right there. And the path Louis walked on was paved(weither anyone likes it or not)by Jack. Hell the "rules" that they sat Joe down and told him he "better" abide by them or there would be no World title shot(let us not forget that Joe didn't feel he was the rightful Champ until he beat Schmeling), were based off the "uppity" Jack Johnson.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

bingo. I got called racist for saying the same thing on NonStop.

Louis and Roxborough even had a list of rules based around doing the exact opposite of Jack Johnson. Roxborough couldnt stand Johnson, and said just as you did: that Johnson had been holding blacks back with how he acted.

Louis was one of the first black athletes to truly be backed by all of America, against Schmeling. looked at him as an American citizen, and not just a black.

without Louis, things would have been a mess for a lot longer, imo.

False. They looked at him as ********ic propaganda. He still wasn't allowed ALL of the freedoms of an American, just like the rest of the Black folks in America.

Dont forget that Braddock got paid off of Joe's future fights for Joe to even get a shot at the title. Name another Champ previous or prior to Joe that had to do such.

[Steak]

False. They looked at him as ********ic propaganda. He still wasn't allowed ALL of the freedoms of an American, just like the rest of the Black folks in America.

Dont forget that Braddock got paid off of Joe's future fights for Joe to even get a shot at the title. Name another Champ previous or prior to Joe that had to do such.

I never said he instantly solved the race issues in America, but he certainly helped take a big step in their development. to that point, he was the most universally accepted African American.

and thats the big difference between Jack Johnson and Joe Louis...Johnson set blacks back, Louis helped them advance socially.
Louis had to give up a lot to do what he had to, but thats what makes him so much better than Johnson.

[Spartacus Sully]

Sully, I dont recall Jack complainng about anything until the Gov. slapped him with the Mann Act. He followed Burns around the world for a shot, purchasing his own ring side ticket to call him out during the fights. Thats gumption right there. And the path Louis walked on was paved(weither anyone likes it or not)by Jack. Hell the "rules" that they sat Joe down and told him he "better" abide by them or there would be no World title shot(let us not forget that Joe didn't feel he was the rightful Champ until he beat Schmeling), were based off the "uppity" Jack Johnson.

its a metaphor for him showing the world just how muddy his path was through his actions and the adverse effects.

jack paved nothing he just left that muddy path just how it was and every time louis bowed his head or didnt raise his hand after a match he paved another stone.

johnson left louis with a curse....and everything louis did was to break that curse.

in this world when your an ******* to some one their just going to be a bigger ******* back regardless of race.

all johnson did was fullfill sterotypes and make the white population hate black people even more.

when person a coerces person b into punching him with name calling the only one whos truly in the right is the guy that comes along and stops the fight.

[RubenSonny]

With all due respect for Jonson and what he had to overcome, he set black athletes back and did nothing to help the cause of his people. Louis on the other hand was a polar opposite. Completely unselfish and fighting to see others get the same opportunities he had gotten.

Nope that was the fault of the racist decision makers, I'm frankly shocked at your take on this Jab, it is ridiculous that Johnson gets blamed for setting blacks back for being himself and acting more gracefully than his opponents, when it was the higher ups that did that, they kept blacks back not Johnson. I do agree that Louis was an elemental help in the progress of black athletes and should be commended for it, but his time and reign are in a completely different context to Johnson who by evidence had to endure harder conditions.

[Spartacus Sully]

Nope that was the fault of the racist decision makers, I'm frankly shocked at your take on this Jab, it is ridiculous that Johnson gets blamed for setting blacks back for being himself and acting more gracefully than his opponents, when it was the higher ups that did that, they kept blacks back not Johnson. I do agree that Louis was an elemental help in the progress of black athletes and should be commended for it, but his time and reign are in a completely different context to Johnson who by evidence had to endure harder conditions.

you don't improve the public's view of your race by being arrogant and conceited.

was the world messed up at the time? absolutely...even now the segregation of the united states is in the 70% range....should jack had to of delt with what he did as a fellow human being? absolutely not.

was how jack acted the best way to make the people who were in control at the time look at African Americans under a better light? absolutely not.

who did more for african americans? martin luther king or malcom x?

are you familiar with the guy i think his name was uncle tom or something.....who helped convince the entire north population that slavery was wrong? didnt he do something like sacraficing his life to protect 2 fellow ****** that he helped escape or something???

these are the kind of actions that change the world.

Jack Johnson was nothing more then a racist trying to work his way up to being just as racist as the white man.

even in today he who talks loudest is oftenly looked down upon.... just look at the mel gibson tapes...he could have had every right to say what he did but instead every one just looks at him as a crazy racist going physco on his wife.

[Steak]

In his autobiography, Louis recalled how Roxborough "cursed Johnson out, told him how he had held up the progress of the Negro people for years with his attitude, how he was a low-down, no-good ******, and told him he wasn't welcome in my camp anymore."

Read more:

Louis's personal feelings wouldn't be expressed until he wrote his autobiography. His recollections of the first black heavyweight champion were tinged with resentment. " Jack Johnson ruined boxing for blacks," he wrote, "especially black heavyweights."

Read more:

No one is suggesting that Johnson created the race situation, of course not, and others are to blame for it. But Johnson didnt help the situation whatsoever, when he had the power to do some good. In fact, he made it even worse.

Louis made sacrifices to advance blacks in society. Johnson didnt give a damn, and selfishly turned his back on blacks once he became champion.

"Jack forgot about his old friends after he became champion and drew the color line against his own people."

[RubenSonny]

you don't improve the public's view of your race by being arrogant and conceited.

was the world messed up at the time? absolutely...even now the segregation of the united states is in the 70% range....should jack had to of delt with what he did as a fellow human being? absolutely not.

was how jack acted the best way to make the people who were in control at the time look at African Americans under a better light? absolutely not.

Yeah a racist light that was wrong in the first place, its funny that no one criticises Jeffries for his racism.

who did more for african americans? martin luther king or malcom x?

You do know Malcolm X was the bigger international figure right? His reach was beyond America and he was in discussions for forming a movement that included King(part of the reason he was assassinated). I don't know what this has to do with with Johnson and Louis anyway King and X(rest in peace, this is in fact the day he died) were both great men.

are you familiar with the guy i think his name was uncle tom or something.....who helped convince the entire north population that slavery was wrong? didnt he do something like sacraficing his life to protect 2 fellow ****** that he helped escape or something???

these are the kind of actions that change the world.

Jack Johnson was nothing more then a racist trying to work his way up to being just as racist as the white man.

What racism are you referring to exactly?

even in today he who talks loudest is oftenly looked down upon.... just look at the mel gibson tapes...he could have had every right to say what he did but instead every one just looks at him as a crazy racist going physco on his wife.

You've explained that people can change injustice but you've failed to explain why the blame for "setting blacks back" should be placed on him and not the clearly racist decision makers, he didn't make the decision they did and he had done nothing unreasonable or anything unprecedented as a champion.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

you don't improve the public's view of your race by being arrogant and conceited.

was the world messed up at the time? absolutely...even now the segregation of the united states is in the 70% range....should jack had to of delt with what he did as a fellow human being? absolutely not.

was how jack acted the best way to make the people who were in control at the time look at African Americans under a better light? absolutely not.

who did more for african americans? martin luther king or malcom x?

are you familiar with the guy i think his name was uncle tom or something.....who helped convince the entire north population that slavery was wrong? didnt he do something like sacraficing his life to protect 2 fellow ****** that he helped escape or something???
these are the kind of actions that change the world.

Jack Johnson was nothing more then a racist trying to work his way up to being just as racist as the white man.
even in today he who talks loudest is oftenly looked down upon.... just look at the mel gibson tapes...he could have had every right to say what he did but instead every one just looks at him as a crazy racist going physco on his wife.

Wrong, just plain old wrong Sully. You sound just like the man in your Avi.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

No one is suggesting that Johnson created the race situation, of course not, and others are to blame for it. But Johnson didnt help the situation whatsoever, when he had the power to do some good. In fact, he made it even worse.

Louis made sacrifices to advance blacks in society. Johnson didnt give a damn, and selfishly turned his back on blacks once he became champion.

In those times the only thing Jack could've done was not become Champion. America had it's mind made up BI137. What about that do you not understand. It mattered not what or how Jack acted. I dont see why this so hard for you to grasp.