World without Joe Louis

[Spartacus Sully]

after giving this some more thought i will say that being the first African American to win the heavy weight title is an incredible accomplishment and influence on African American moral at the time causing perhaps a much greater impact on the world then i can imagine.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

Did Joe Louis set a good example nearly beating a woman to death?

absolutely. best example ever.....with the act of admitting youve done something, feeling regret and apologizing.

did he even hit her? i thought he ha djust pushed her on the bed and was about to hit her before some one threatened to call the cops and he came to.

Right!!!!! Or how about taking two ****in weeks to get a loaf of bread, and make up for that with a diamond ring.

Yea Joe set a great example for Joe Jr.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

after giving this some more thought i will say that being the first African American to win the heavy weight title is an incredible accomplishment and influence on African American moral at the time causing perhaps a much greater impact on the world then i can imagine.

I appreciate you looking at things from a different angle Sully. I'm not sayin that Jack was the greatest human being to grace this earth, not at all, he had his faults, and very well could've done things differently or offered an explaination. I just feel that he did more than most want to give him credit for and has for damn near 100 years been painted as the anit-christ(for lack of a better word)of Boxing and Black-Americans. And I believe that it is very unfair. Thats all.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

page 138 and 139.
Horne said that Louis 'was incapable of treating a woman violently'.

regardless, even if Louis did do it it doesnt change the fact that Johnson screwed things up in his time.

Thats cause Lena Horne was ****in him whilst he was married. Next.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

Joe Louis wasnt a saint either, but at leat he put on a good mask for the benefit of African Americans.
Johnson did the same thing as well, by the way.

also Lena Horne said that didnt happen I think, although Im not sure what to believe.

So living a lie is better?!?!?!?!?

[Steak]

So living a lie is better?!?!?!?!?

yes, when one path leads to better lives for African Americans and the other holds them back.

is it really so hard to understand?

[GJC]

..but jack johnson did not live in modern times.
.

That's pretty much the crux of the matter. Given the circumstances I don't think Johnson was every going to be popular but it does seem that he was a disagreeable fellow which probably threw petrol onto an already explosive situation. Maybe if Johnson handled the situation like Louis did he might have eased the path a bit for the black heavyweights of his era and the 20s. I am pretty sure that Ali would have gone down like a dose of cold sick in the Johnson era. I think Ali took the work that Louis did a bit lightly because I believe that it certainly eased his path. There are always racists there are always ******** and the majority probably don't really give race much thought I think unfortunately that Johnson upset that majority too . And remember no one loves a prophet

[bklynboy]

No Fredrick Douglas did not do it by himself, but slavery was not abolished soley based on race. Economics is what abolished slavery. Lincoln did not authorize the war against the south due to slavery, it was due to the integrity of the Union. Slavery was merely a side issue(If they really viewed all men as created equal they would have integrated the Army and for that matter the entire North, which they didnt). The north had turned a blind eye to slavery once they no longer had the need for it(Other than the few abolitionist). Uncle Tom's cabin was nothing more than a staunch reminder to some.

Slavery was not a side issue. The south seceded because they knew that with Lincoln being elected, and with the slavery not allowed to expand, that it was now or never.

No Lincoln did not want a war. Think about it over 600,000 men in uniform died in less than 5 years. Closing in on 10 years in Afghanistan and Iraq and we have 10,000 dead. In the Civil War we averaged over 10,000 dead/month in a population a little more than 1/10th our present size.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

Slavery was not a side issue. The south seceded because they knew that with Lincoln being elected, and with the slavery not allowed to expand, that it was now or never.

No Lincoln did not want a war. Think about it over 600,000 men in uniform died in less than 5 years. Closing in on 10 years in Afghanistan and Iraq and we have 10,000 dead. In the Civil War we averaged over 10,000 dead/month in a population a little more than 1/10th our present size.

Not sayin it was an insignificant issue potna. I'm saying it was not the primise of what the war was born on. Yes the South had heartburn because they were not going to be able to expand slavery into the plains, but the fear in which the south had over slavery was that the north was going to run their house. And the South was making big money off the labor(Cotton Is King). The north was making money off of the industrial market born of steel, so on and so forth.

The war was waged because the south said I'm taking my ball and going to start a new game, not slavery even though it had something to do with the initial fallout, henceforth "side issue". Believe me bruh, we black folks were an afterthought. We were not the main issue.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

The Civil war was basically fought over money. If you really wanna get down to the root of it. NOT Uncle Tom's Cabin.