Jack Dempsey against Rocky Marciano

[Anthony342]

Yu lost me Anthony but Im sure anything that can inspire creativity and focus is a good thing!

You never saw the movie The Warriors? It was a movie inspired by a novel of the same name by Sol Yurick and the Greek myth The Anabassis by Xenophon.

[HOUDINI563]

Not in 1917, No not at all.

[billeau2]

You never saw the movie The Warriors? It was a movie inspired by a novel of the same name by Sol Yurick and the Greek myth The Anabassis by Xenophon.

Yeah loved the Warriors! the Wanderers also...Never knew the inspiration for the movie though. Thats wild. I always thought the guy was someone who grew up in Brooklyn at that time...Believe it or not it really was kind of like that, minus the outfits. I used to play baseball in Brooklyn and take the subway back and fourth from Manhattan. I was on there late at night sometimes, because practice as after school... I could tell you stories!!

I always had a baseball bat with me along with my mitt. I used to have crazy Rican's come after me, etc. its a miracle I am still alive, my parents were kind of passive about letting me be out and about lol.

[travestyny]

Not in 1917, No not at all.

So you're saying that there were no mixed race bouts in 1917?

Dude, even Dempsey acknowledges that the crowd called him a coward for not accepting the fight.

[Anthony342]

Yeah loved the Warriors! the Wanderers also...Never knew the inspiration for the movie though. Thats wild. I always thought the guy was someone who grew up in Brooklyn at that time...Believe it or not it really was kind of like that, minus the outfits. I used to play baseball in Brooklyn and take the subway back and fourth from Manhattan. I was on there late at night sometimes, because practice as after school... I could tell you stories!!

I always had a baseball bat with me along with my mitt. I used to have crazy Rican's come after me, etc. its a miracle I am still alive, my parents were kind of passive about letting me be out and about lol.

Well then I guess, as Cyrus said, you CAN dig it. And yeah, I know, I've seen news footage from those times and it carried over into the '80s where, like Terry Crews said on the show Brooklyn Nine Nine "it was like The Purge". Giuliani did a good job of cleaning up the city, one of the few politicians that actually got things done. That seems to be more of a thing on the local level anyway, or where there seems to be a more direct impact felt. They said on the DVD extras that a real life gang leader was originally cast to play Cyrus, but never showed the day of filming, so that lead to Roger Hill being cast.

[HOUDINI563]

The point is that it's perfectly reasonable for any fighter to refuse a bout when a last minute change is made with the opponent. Sort of like a young Ali finding that an opponent he would be paid a goodly sum to face was in the ring for an exhibition with light gloves and no head gear. Not going to happen.

[travestyny]

The point is that it's perfectly reasonable for any fighter to refuse a bout when a last minute change is made with the opponent. Sort of like a young Ali finding that an opponent he would be paid a goodly sum to face was in the ring for an exhibition with light gloves and no head gear. Not going to happen.

You refuse to acknowledge his willingness to fight ANY white challenger to pop up, but not �a colored boy.? You gave the excuse about championship bouts, but it�s before he was a champion. You talked about the times, but the crowd urged him to engage. He ducked the challenge, plain and simple. Whether it�s because he was afraid of Jeannette (maybe not, but can�t be sure after his Langford quotation), afraid of black fighters (who knows), afraid of losing specifically to a black fighter (could be it because of how the public would view that), or just afraid to lose period, he ducked this challenge. Later he drew the color line and also broke a contract to fight Wills after claiming Wills was the only fighter he ever wanted to fight since becoming champion. Broke the contract even when the public seemed ready for it.

He ducked this challenge. There is nothing more to say about it really. Whether he had a legit reason after stating he would fight any white, and after being berated by a crowd that pleaded for him to fight, well that�s up to you. But you can�t blame it on him being the champion or on public sentiment based on the crowd there.

[The Old LefHook]

Dempsey ducked blacks. He stated he was. That only makes him less than a perfect man. What needs to be proven is that he was afraid of blacks. If you cannot prove Dempsey was a coward, who cares that he was an expression of his times instead of being 50 years ahead of most people in the country in terms of social issues?

[travestyny]

Dempsey ducked blacks. He stated he was. That only makes him less than a perfect man. What needs to be proven is that he was afraid of blacks. If you cannot prove Dempsey was a coward, who cares that he was an expression of his times instead of being 50 years ahead of most people in the country in terms of social issues?

Well I wouldn’t say it has to be proven that he was afraid of blacks. I think it would suffice to say he was afraid of the possibility of losing to a black fighter, in my opinion.

For that particular night, it didn't seem expressive of the time when the crowd began calling him a yellow dog. I'm not saying that. That's what the crowd reportedly said.

He was scared of something obviously....I'm not saying it was Jeannette per se. But then again, he did admit being afraid of Langford and so he declined that fight. His sparring partner at the same stage in his career took on Langford at around the same time, and got a draw if I remember correctly.

[The Old LefHook]

Anyone who takes seriously the words of a young fighter paying tribute to an older one lives in dreamland. It doesn't matter if Dempsey said this thirty years after retirement or while active. It is the style of hyperbole one often hears in these situations after the fact. The fact that you cannot grasp this makes you look rather gullible and vitriolic, friend. If you want more instances of the same hyperbolic style of praise often indulged in by boxers, check out some of Tunney's exaggerated praise of Dempsey in latter years. But to you, Dempsey's politic words mean certainly and only that he was afraid of Langford, which to you of course means he must have been afraid of Jeannette as well.

Like the man said previously, if an opponent doesn't show, the other opponent has a right to refuse to fight any replacement. Why do you think top fighters invariably fight a mere opponent when a major opponent has to cancel or postpone? No one, and I mean literally no one, fights another major opponent after a major one cancels near the fight. Name such an instance where the other fighter went ahead and fought a major one opponent on short notice. I doubt if you can. But maybe you can, for I just threw it out there. I say they always fight a mere opponent. Not usually, but always. Pay a little more attention to what is going on and you will pick up on these notions yourself.

Your articles on the possibility of loaded gloves and bicycle tape for Dempsey was a better argument with more support. I had never heard of bicycle tape before that. It is still an interesting argument with possibilities, but one has to let it go sometime when people will not release their idol's hand or concede any point at all. That said, I still believe you have a feather up your as* for Jack.