Jack Dempsey against Rocky Marciano

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Not at all. The argument is about a quotation that I provided from a book. Also pointed out to him that his quotation makes it clear that the FIRST part is from the autobiography. It never explicitly says that the "because he was a negro" part was a part of the autobiography, and the use of the ellipsis is shady, which could probably mean it came from just about any book written regarding Dempsey at that time.

Somehow he thinks that will serve as his proof that the quotation I provided is false. I hope he can do better than that to serve as proof that my quotation is a fabrication. I've posted it again below.



You're absolutely lying Entirely false???


There were two parts of the quotation you posted.



As I said, it clearly seems that the quotation is saying "He was gypped out of his crack at that title..." is from the autobiography. Clearly. There are at least three other sources that have also said that's in the autobiography. Whether it was edited out in later version, I do not know. But it would be odd for other sources to say the same if it had never appeared in any of the editions.

I never made any argument about the quotation following it. If it meant that part is from the autobiography, then they are probably using the ellipsis to fit their agenda.

You trying to use that to somehow justify that this is a false quotation is laughable

Let's see who can prove this is legit. Do you accept the challenge. Fourth time I'm asking. Let's see who has the bigger proof regarding whether this is true or not. Deal?

Do you not see the quotations around “I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro.”? That means its a quote you ****ing inbred.

Dempsey says they ripped Wills off. So what? Are you somehow trying to twist that around to Dempsey saying he wouldn't fight Wills? It says THEY not WE.

It's like arguing with a ****ing pigeon.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

1. The quotation you gave didn’t say that you illiterate bltch. It said the first quotation was from his biography, which I pointed out.

They claim "I never fought Wills...because he was a Negro." is from Dempsey's autobiography. You're a ****ing moron, delete your account.

[travestyny]

--- Teensy, I’m gonna put everything in summary chronological order.

Dempsey a hot shot fighter out of the Utah territories and Colorado comes to NYC with his manager via train as passengers to drum up some fights and make bigger money. Immediately the local conman targets the two young hayseeds and manufactures a telegram from back home about a family emergency, so his manager returns home with Dempsey promised a fight by the conman. Dempsey doesn’t have a dime to his name but expecting to get paid fights the 6-5 Andre Anderson and whoops him, but doesn’t get paid. So he’s sleeping on a park bench standing in a soup line waiting for his pay and next fight. He fights heavy contender John Lester Johnson to a draw, a really tough fight he got his ribs busted up early, and still no pay forthcoming, but the conman tells him to fight Sam Langford who was still on a tear, literally the best heavy in the world, but now Jack knows this is a big city con, so screw this NYC fight biz and rides the rails out of town

Question: Did he say that he didn't fight Langford because he was afraid of him? That's all I want to know.

Also, did his sparring partner, just as young and with the same amount of fights, fight Langford instead? Let me know, bro

, ends up under Doc Kearns who brilliantly brings him along. He’s still poor, but can at least afford groceries and a roof to live under and things are looking up. Doc takes him east and he’s cleaning out the division. Does a charity benefit to promote the impending Willard fight, but the agreed up fighter has been paid to vacate the premises so Joe Jeannette can take his place.

Now Joe was on his last legs as a fighter and has no chance to fight Willard who ain’t been fighting anyone. Why is that? Well, the fight biz being crooked and still illegal in many jurisdictions, he can make more money putting on his wild west shows and sparring exhibitions like many previous champs did using vaudeville. Guaranteed gigs with guaranteed pay more than boxing. Kearns knows Joe won’t just go through the motions, and for the short duration of the exhibition could stink up the place to make Jack look bad, so he protects his investment by walking out of the fight. Any manager worth anything would do the same, not a duck, and note, Jack repeatedly says he’ll fight anyone Kearns puts in front of him.

That's a whole lot of excuses, Queenie. Again, stop ducking it. What quotation was given in the article written by Dempsey:

"I'LL FIGHT ANY WHITE MAN, BUT I NEVER AGREED TO FIGHT A COLORED BOY."

Explain that, Queenie! Stop ducking it.

Jack wins the title and proffers the usual won’t defend against black fighters,

OHHHHHHHH. SO NOW YOU SAY HE DID DRAW THE COLOR LINE. A FEW QUOTATIONS AGO, YOU SAID HE DIDN'T. I WISH YOU WOULD MAKE UP YOUR MIND.

and why is that? His promoter, Tex Rickard promoted the two biggest fights of the 20th century thus far with Black vs White fighters, but they weren’t promoted that way but rather as the top champions battling each other in Nelson vs Gans and Johnson vs Jeffries. That fight turned tragic as we know and dragged down boxing even further from the mainstream it had been seeking. That began the No Decision era for any fight that went the distance to discourage ********, so newspapermen used their consensus to score fights to keep public interest alive. Then Dempsey comes along holding the first round KO record knocking out guys like swatting flies, and suddenly the world is electrified. No way Rickard is gonna risk another national race riot, so voila, even if Dempsey wants to fight a black fighter, the only guy who could pull it off don’t want it. Dempsey fills out his training camp with young black heavies and it’s manna raining from the heavens for all.

Still ducking. Did Dempsey break the contract to fight Wills? Also, did Dempsey say that Wills was the only man he wanted since 1919. ALSO, did Wills say he had the power to demand the fight happen? What do you think, Queenie?

Reporters are a rather ****** lot mostly, and they all ask the same questions that get irritating to have to give the same answer. Sam half blind now and ain’t the terror he used to be, but needs the payday. Nobody is asking for Sam, nor Joe who’s been long retired by now, the press want Wills, so Jack mouths the same “won’t defend against black fighters” ad infinitum, but of course he’s talking about it with his sparring partners and gets plenty of encouragement.

So you're saying the press is asking him about fighting Wills and he's saying, "Nope....color-line." Thanks, Queenie.

He’s still not making much money, but local beauty gets her hooks in him, and now he’s married and at odds with Kearns who doesn’t want to have to deal with a married fighter. Jack knows Wills would be a big fight worth bukos of money and other promoters are starting to make offers. He signs twice, maybe even thrice, but never gets his guarantee because the finances and politics weren’t available to make a fight that might cause another national race riot. That is where your supposed broken contract dialogue came from.

Supposed? I have PROOF that it was a valid contract he broke. Are you going to step up and admit this or keep ducking it, Queenie?

Kearns is also suing him, the conman from NYC has been suing him ever since he won the title, so Jack says screw this, so he and his now happily married wife move out to Hollywood so they can do movies. He takes his buddy big Bill Tate along as friend and sparmate in anticipation of Wills coming to fruition, and immediately catches flak from the community who object a black living in their neighborhood. So, since the money begins immediately flowing in, Jack can afford to officially make him his chauffeur which would’ve been a very prestigious position for anyone and still is even today. Jack could afford the swanky new models and with the beaming Bill Tate driving, it was like living in hog heaven for these two po’ boys.

Oh he made him his chauffeur. How sweet. Meanwhile, he's ducking Wills who could probably demand higher purses had he won the championship off of Dempsey.

Rickard is getting frustrated reading about all the Wills fights falling through as the political climate improves, so he offers Wills an eliminator against Gene Tunney good money with the winner getting Dempsey for even bigger money. Maybe Wills was feeling his years when he turned down the offer to go and get beat by Sharkey who Jack fought in another eliminator after losing the first Tunney fight. Wills was no longer relevant and Jack soon retired.

Still no answer. Did he break a contract to get out of the fight with Wills? Is it a hard question?

There’s several autobios out where he now doubt says a lot of different things. When he made the Langford quote of being scared, that’s when he was sleeping on a park bench standing in soup lines with no hope of a payday. Jack was always gracious with fighters and wanted people to know how much respect he had for him.

And what was life like for Tate who took the fight and got a draw?

Context son, or you will struggle terribly in life. The slop that Sam never won a world title is the kind of thing you read in books, but point if fact he fought Jeannette in Paris circa 1913 and a terrific fight for Sam, and not so terrific for Joe. The French federation has stripped Johnson of the world title after his Battling Johnson defense travesty and awarded it to Sam, who sadly went back to America and never defended it, why? Maybe it's in Moyles' book.

Again, what is the reason that Dempsey said he didn't fight Langford? Did he say it was because he was hungry and in soup lines? What did the man say? He said he was SCARED. Perhaps he was scared because he didn't have the experience, but Tate fought Langford. So there you go. Why was Tate willing to step up but not Dempsey? I'll let you tell me, but you'll just duck it, won't you?

Let's talk about context:
Was Dempsey protecting an "0"?
Would Dempsey have been barred from fighting for the heavyweight title if he lost?
What would be the worst that could happen to Dempsey if he would have accepted the fight and lost?
For that matter, what would happen if he won this fight, or even got a draw????

He was afraid of an asswhoopin. That's it. No matter how much you try to twist this around, you can't deny that!

Dempsey was quite popular with Louis and Ali because he was an advanced man of his generation, something that escapes you obviously.

LMAOOOO. You are ridiculous. You've written about every excuse possible to duck the facts I've provided, and now you stoop so low to: but but but....Joe Louis and Ali also liked him! You're trying too hard.

He gave up 3 years of his life, ditched his manager and promoter trying to get Wills made and no matter how many times a day you may get yer diapers changed, you’re not fit to even talk about him. You have not added anything new to the dialogue from my perspective, but what you are excellent at is taking everything out of context and asking what lawyers term leading questions that are routinely thrown out of court. Now, when did you stop beating your girl?

THAT WAS A LONG WINDED WAY OF DUCKING THE QUESTION, QUEENIE. I'M STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER.

DID A COURT OF LAW FIND THAT JACK DEMPSEY BROKE A VALID CONTRACT TO FIGHT HARRY WILLS? SIMPLE QUESTION. I'LL AWAIT YOUR SIMPLE RESPONSE.

[travestyny]

Do you not see the quotations around “I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro.”? That means its a quote you ****ing inbred.

You moron. Did I say it's not a quote? I said it doesn't explicitly say where it came from.

Dempsey says they ripped Wills off. So what? Are you somehow trying to twist that around to Dempsey saying he wouldn't fight Wills? It says THEY not WE.

It's like arguing with a ****ing pigeon.

What the hell are you talking about?


I still see no answer son. Maybe I have to scroll back. Did you accept the challenge, or is my c@ck so far down your throat that you can't cop enough breaths to give an answer

[travestyny]

They claim "I never fought Wills...because he was a Negro." is from Dempsey's autobiography. You're a ****ing moron, delete your account.

I don't see them saying that explicitly. I see them saying the first quote was from the autobiography. And I see the use of an ellipsis....and that's what you want to compare my quotation to?

Let me show you what can be done with an ellipsis.

About Dempsey's quotation, Mr.MojoRisin' said this:

...lying...so many easily disprovable statements in it that everyone would have been in an uproar over it. It's unexplainably dumb...so many lies.

Why haven't you accepted the challenge, Mr.Hobo? Is it the 5th or 6th time I'm asking. Waiting.....

Get ready to delete your account when you lose Stop ducking me, bltch!

[travestyny]

Poor Mr.H@moClownin' about to have to live with the fact that he did this to Jack Dempsey

Yes, the source is lying because it has so many easily disprovable statements in it that everyone would have been in an uproar over it. It's unexplainably dumb I've never seen a source full of so many lies. The language the source claims Dempsey used does not match his other language anyway. Wasn't Dempsey. Where did you get this source anyway?

why would he blatantly lie about so much and expect to get away with it?

[QueensburyRules]

--- Teensy, you never did tell us when you stopped beating yer grrl.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Did I say it's not a quote? I said it doesn't explicitly say where it came from.

Where the **** else do you think it came from? Congratulations on making village idiot of the year.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Poor Mr.H@moClownin' about to have to live with the fact that he did this to Jack Dempsey

What are you trying to say here?

I called your sources fabrications and provided evidence. What's your intent in your response? To come across as having the iq of a toad?

[travestyny]

--- Teensy, you never did tell us when you stopped beating yer grrl.

Are you calling yourself my girl, Queenie?

You’re one twisted individual.

But that won’t save you. Still waiting for you to either answer the question or fold.

Did a court find that Dempsey broke a valid contract to fight Wills? Yes or no? Must be a hard question!