Boxing match: Tyson
MMA match: Tyson
No holds barred streetfight: probably Tyson
MMA match: Tyson
No holds barred streetfight: probably Tyson
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when Norris fought point sparring it was not tag. It is today for sure. Guys got broken up routinely back in the day and would fight with broken ribs, fingers, etc...Heck I fought with broken broken fingers, concussions, etc... It was different back then. Not weighing in on this situation just yet, but lets keep it real gentlemen.Originally posted by ShoulderRoll View PostComment
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Ok lets do this:
Im starting this post objectively and not picking a winner just yet. but lets get a few things out of the way: In a boxing ring, boxers win if the other guy is not a boxer and is boxing...period.
Bruce Lee did spar, so that is a misconception as well.
Gloves do not Inhibit a boxer, this is another misconception, they allow a fighter trained to hit things the way a boxer does, to protect his hands. I can attest to this having watched many many times as boxers broke their hands in battle royales. I watched this happen as a bouncer. If you think a boxer would beat anyone when he has just shattered his hand on a parking meter (watched it happen), think again! Lets not forget what happened to Mike himself when he fought Mitch Green in Harlem on the street: his hand was damaged and the man who many thought would kill anyone he hit? gave Green a decent shiner and not much else.
Ok with that said what happens if these two meet? Lets deal with some of the If, what and coconuts as they say haha.
1) Range is everything. A good martial artist has an understanding of the range at which he operates...the guys fighting wing chun we see from china against the MMA guy are garbage.
Even the modified Chun, Lee held on to, operates at the range where we are in front of each other and can touch each other's chest and still keep our elbows slightly bent. Thats why we know W chun is a civilian art by the way. This would be the only range that is shared by a boxer and chunner where the 5% of well trained fighting wing Chun men would have an actual advantage.
The fact that 95% of so called Wing Chun practicioners do not know this is a comical aside...Lee probably understood this.
The only other range that would favor Lee would be kicking range. Chun does not use those kicks, but Lee did and could use a fantastic side kick primarily. Any other range in the spectrum in which both men would operate would favor Mike (the boxer).
2) Set Up A boxer boxes... He can box you under water, he can box you on top of a mountain... A martial artist, a real martial artist on the other hand, sets up his range, and his tools so he can operate effectively. There is no boxing match, no prolonged encounters. One of my teachers used to say, "if it is not over in less than 5 seconds, or so, you did something wrong."
So while a boxer is concentrating on hitting, a martial artist would ideally like to get in there before the hitting starts. Would not make for much of a fight though would it? Lee in a split second, as Mike is getting set to square up, catching him with a backfist, or lead to the head followed with a crippling kick. That is the way Lee would win...
For Mike? once he has Lee in his range and can keep him in that range, all he would need realistically is to catch Lee with a good solid shot. That is how he would win.
There are of course the "little things." For example, when I fought boxers I would set a trap: make them convinced I was going to throw hands with them, exxagerate my hands going up into position, to get the boxer to read me like a book and start to come fourth...at which point I would plant an untelegraphed front kick to the groin...this could also work as the boxer punched because the leg has more reach than the arm.
Mike could start his attack from a distance and just jump in fast as he could... never letting Lee get set... Even the best martial artist has to have some ground on which to operate on for stability. This would be a take out of the grappler's handbook.
So, I presented some scenarios. I will say this. A real martial artist operates in such a way that weapons are there to use, speed of delivery initially is in the timing, and the other guy is not given a chance.
Boxing is a test of skill. Lee was very skillful in his teaching, but not the same way... he would spar to learn how to do things to an opponent, not to win points. Lee's speed is his biggest asset.
Mike has all the skill and power he needs, but has to set it up so he can use his advantages.Comment
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Chuck Norris did point karate, where they pulled their punches and weren't allowed to hit with full force.Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
That isn't real fighting.
I would give him more respect if he has been successful in full contact karate like Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis. Just keeping it real.Comment
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Obviously Mike Tyson because Mike Tyson is a Heavyweight elite boxer and Bruce Lee is an actor.Comment
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I put in Bruce Lee name as a tribute and an opponent to Mike Tyson. Point of fact, a good lightweight martial artist can drop a 200+ boxer within a flash. As Billeau2 pointed out.
Bruce Lee wins in a knockout in 15 seconds of the first round, including the count.
I ALWAYS PICK THE LITTLE GUY, THAT SEEMS (LIKE) HE HASN'T GOT A CHANCE.
Tyson was the 50/1 favorite.
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sidebar: A fighter can win more money in losing!Comment
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Chuck fought in those circles...it was all called point fighting back then. They would distinguish it by the amount of contact allowed, it was not called different names rather; "Point fighting, full contact to the body, no touch to the face" or... light contact to the face, etc. Norris fought Lewis I don't think he fought Wallace.Originally posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
this is Norris in a "Point sparring" match.
Here is Norris against Lewis:
Things were sooo different then: Notice there is no bouncing? Lol. When we fought we never bounced, that started happening when kick boxing watered down both arts: Boxing and Karate. In Karate you stand your ground and throw your techniques...not today though... these kids bounce and hit so weak you have to ask the judge if the point scored.
Shoulder, it is a common misconception that "point fighting" was (as opposed to is) no contact. I could show you some great matches where many bones were broken... Lewis was indeed the worse offender, that sidekick of his sheeeesh! the thing was murder to deal with!Comment
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Chuck Norris did a lot more than just point fighting.
His credentials:
3rd degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu from the Machado family
Black belt in Judo, partially trained by "Judo Gene" Labell
9th degree black belt in Tang Soo Do (Korean Karate style)
8th degree black belt in Taekwondo
5th degree black belt in Shotokan Karate
8th degree black belt in Kyokushin Budokai Karate
He's also a 10th degree black belt in his own martial art and a Korean War veteran.
You don't get to those ranks in styles like BJJ, Judo, or Kyokushin without a lot of hard sparring.
Norris is a legit badass.Comment
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Its confusing to people because in that era when you fought and knocked the living crap out of each other...with real techniques, they referred to that as "point sparring." Lol. Just like when the Hell's Angel's are going to a meeting to discuss certain "things" it is called going to Church lol.Originally posted by famicommander View Post
So, when one says guys only did Point sparring? well its true, but point sparring was not this glorified game of tag:
It was more like this:
YOU cannot even compare the two! I came up fighting old school, and you can tell us guys because all of our fingers go out a different angle!Comment
Good one 
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