Kickboxing Should Be Called Kicking

[envirocopy512]

be honest though man, its pretty obvious Mercer didn't give a **** in that fight with Remy Bonjasky and was only there to get paid.

[EzzardFan]

there's a lot of stuff on this thread i just don't agree with and don't feel like going point for point.

I'll try and do the cliff notes best as possible.

3. the post on the 3 effective kicks reads like the Tao of JKD.
I use the lead side kick on occasion, especially if I'm worried that the other guy's good at catching my push kick, but it's kind of a pain in the azz, because it's hard to follow up with punches after you blast the sidekick & it doesn't do enough damage to incapacitate. I get a lot more mileage out of my round kick.

That's because your frame of reference is set within the rules of Muay Thai. Lead side kick to the knee whilst wearing shoes will destroy the knee joint. That's why delivering this kick whilst wearing shoes is against the rules of every mainstream fighting sport, and why it appears in the Tao of JKD!

My point was in reference to real world self defence, not sport fighting. If you want to know what is most effective in the street, then look at what is against the rules in sport fighting and you're off to a great start. Sticking your fingers or thumb in the other persons eye being another great example, as is elbowing them on the medulla, and head rips, where you grasp the back of the head with one hand and the chin with the other then twist 180 degrees, it's won't (usually) break their neck but it will result in a concussive knockout and possible lasting damage to their cervical disks.

[Righthandbanger]

Muay Thai fighters generally have ****ty hands. But, who needs hands when you have elbows, knees and the clinch !! I'll take a great kicker over a great puncher any day of the week(and if that kicker has a great clinch game, it's over) !!

This is not necessarily true.

The Dutch do emphasize punching more. But, kicking reigns supreme. I'll take a great kicker over a great puncher, any day of the week !! A guy with great hands don't mean ****, if he's infront of a great clinch master with a strong kicking game to boot !!

This is why boxing+wrestling/judo is so effective.
..when I competed in MT I had a sanda background so whenever I got clinched I just picked them up and slammed them down.. I got warned a couple of times but never DQ'd

[Stevie_WONDER..]

The Dutch do emphasize punching more. But, kicking reigns supreme. I'll take a great kicker over a great puncher, any day of the week !! A guy with great hands don't mean ****, if he's infront of a great clinch master with a strong kicking game to boot !!

The great Buakaw, fight starts at 6:30 Buakaw gets up at 7:15

vs someone with very basic boxing

[Pork Chop]

Lead side kick to the knee whilst wearing shoes will destroy the knee joint.

this is not my experience at all.
first off, shoes are allowed in savate, yeah it's wrestling shoes, but most people wear sneakers when they go out, not steel-toed boots.
second, joint attacks only work head-on if the leg is locked, not when it's bent.
third, you have to get the angle to attack the joint from the side, and on experienced fighters like myself, that crap ain't happening.

joint attacks were legal in the vale tudo and nhb days.
as were a lot of your "teh real street lethal" deadly techniques.
plenty of jkd guys fought.

i think you need to talk to erik paulson about what really works.
he has about a thousand times the amount of fight experience as "master" bruce. I like the dude's movies, but dude was NOT a friggin fighter.

[EzzardFan]

this is not my experience at all.
first off, shoes are allowed in savate, yeah it's wrestling shoes, but most people wear sneakers when they go out, not steel-toed boots.

In the lead side kick you're striking with your heel, the heel being directly line with the rest of your leg does not cushion the blow so it hits a lot harder, especially if you open out your hips as you kick.

second, joint attacks only work head-on if the leg is locked, not when it's bent.

That is partially correct. If the knee is bent and you hit it side on then the joint will not suffer any serious damage, but it will knock them down, which is very useful.

third, you have to get the angle to attack the joint from the side, and on experienced fighters like myself, that crap ain't happening.

No - you must attack the joint front on, ideally striking the top of their knee with your heel in order to bend the knee back on itself.

This serves best as a preemptive strike. Most street attackers are untrained and come at you square (which is very useful). The lead leg has the longest reach, and their knee us usually the closest target. If you hit it head on then it's easy to collapse even a slightly bent knee.

joint attacks were legal in the vale tudo and nhb days.
as were a lot of your "teh real street lethal" deadly techniques.
plenty of jkd guys fought.

They were held in a ring, and those were trained fighters, not the same thing. I don't believe in magic bullets. Most self protection techniques are intended to operate as preemptive set pieces. If the set piece fails then you have a fight on your hands, and that's a different proposition altogether.

i think you need to talk to erik paulson about what really works.
he has about a thousand times the amount of fight experience as "master" bruce. I like the dude's movies, but dude was NOT a friggin fighter.

I prefer to go by my own experience. I'm not a Bruce Lee fanboy, but I do believe that the lead side kick has a lot of merit, and that lead leg kicking is far less telegraphic, and therefore much more effective in preemptive set piece situations. This kick in particular works very well as a counter where an attacker opens by taking a swing at you. It's useless against someone charging at you though.

[Pork Chop]

That is partially correct. If the knee is bent and you hit it side on then the joint will not suffer any serious damage, but it will knock them down, which is very useful.

No - you must attack the joint front on, ideally striking the top of their knee with your heel in order to bend the knee back on itself.

Yeah, i've taken kicks like that before and they don't do half the damage your claiming, even with docs on.

I prefer to go by my own experience.

yeah, so do i

but I do believe that the lead side kick has a lot of merit, and that lead leg kicking is far less telegraphic, and therefore much more effective in preemptive set piece situations.

i use lead side kick a lot, but for me it's a distance keeper.
i've seen legs broken from side kicks (and even round kicks) but from when the leg was locked.
any other time, the worst it caused was a cramp or a bruise; unless it was a push kick or side kick intercepting the thigh of a kick in the air - then i've been dropped by that stuff & have seen other guys experience the same, no tension in the muscles of the leg throwing the kick meant that it cut like a knife through butter.

[I'd rather box]

1) Don't really know what to say to the first paragraph, just that your experience was different than mine then.

2) Have you ever watched Nopparat Keatkhamtorn fight? He's got EXACTLY what you mentioned in the second paragraph--very powerful kicks and a world-class clinch game, one of the strongest in Thailand. Yet he's been KO'd by good punchers MULTIPLE times. Its his absolute kryptonite. Anuwat, Yodsanklai, Bovy...all beat him with punches. He's known for struggling against guys with good boxing skills. So what you said is simply wrong.

And, what I stated is not meant to be factual, I am speaking in general terms here. Nothing works 100% of the time. But, I just like the chances of the kicker over the puncher most of the time.

Here's an analogy. For instance, in boxing, they say that the jab is the most important punch. That's why, alot of times, most fans/experts alike make pick the boxer over the slugger.

Now, does that mean, the fighter with the better jab always wins ?? Hell no.

The great Buakaw, fight starts at 6:30 Buakaw gets up at 7:15

vs someone with very basic boxing

Psst, anyone can get caught. Hmm, I wonder what happened for the rest of that fight, lmao.

Manny Pacquiao, suffered early ko losses in his career, and the rest is history !!

Buakaw dominated K-1 for awhile on his kicking ability alone, against guys who were/are considered more well-rounded under K-1 rules !! K-1 revised some of their rules all because of the Muay Thai style.

[Righthandbanger]

Buakaw dominated K-1 for awhile on his kicking ability alone, against guys who were/are considered more well-rounded under K-1 rules !! K-1 revised some of their rules all because of the Muay Thai style.

unfortunately, this is true. Instead of teaching the idiots to go for double underhooks and slam when they get clinched, they just made the thai clinch illegal

[envirocopy512]

unfortunately, this is true. Instead of teaching the idiots to go for double underhooks and slam when they get clinched, they just made the thai clinch illegal

LOL @ acting like its this simple. Thai fighters are fantastic clinchers. something as simple as going for underhooks isn't going to make you competitive in the clinch. It takes years of practice, like anything else.