Why not Holmes over Ali?

[JAB5239]

Why must I do all the homework for you? I was given not time off disagreeing with others. You are wrong to suggest that. Mind your P's and Q's and don't talk politics. How do you know who is and who is not an alt? Do tell. An alt is a poster that used other names on the same site.

Some people laugh at Pinocho, others take him seriously. I say he lies. The nose tells the tale.

You MADE the claim, I'm just asking you to back it up and give us the page number. Is that so difficult? Maybe I wouldn't need to do this if you weren't caught making so many things up. You're asking me how do I know who is and isn't an alt? I pose the same question right back to you. Bronson is a new user account. Now if Ivich was active a Bronson were posting that would be an alternate account. You don't seem to grasp that. As it stands, you have been thoroughly thrashed in this thread.

[Bronson66]

You MADE the claim, I'm just asking you to back it up and give us the page number. Is that so difficult? Maybe I wouldn't need to do this if you weren't caught making so many things up. You're asking me how do I know who is and isn't an alt? I pose the same question right back to you. Bronson is a new user account. Now if Ivich was active a Bronson were posting that would be an alternate account. You don't seem to grasp that. As it stands, you have been thoroughly thrashed in this thread.

I have the book,in it Holmes confirms it was he and his managers idea to leave Ali's camp,to quit being seen as a $500 a week sparring partner and make a name for himself as a fighter in his own right .There is zero mention of him being fired ,because of course he wasn't! Holmes left Ali's camp after the Ali v Wepner fight in1975,the interview for the book," Facing Ali," was done when Holmes was 52,its the last chapter in the book entitled Round Fifteen,from page 279 to page 298.
Dr Duck is a compulsive,and proven liar.

[JAB5239]

I have the book,in it Holmes confirms it was he and his managers idea to leave Ali's camp,to quit being seen as a $500 a week sparring partner and make a name for himself as a fighter in his own right .There is zero mention of him being fired ,because of course he wasn't! Holmes left Ali's camp after the Ali v Wepner fight in1975,the interview for the book," Facing Ali," was done when Holmes was 52,its the last chapter in the book entitled Round Fifteen,from page 279 to page 298.
Dr Duck is a compulsive,and proven liar.

So it's not there, it's not on the video he posted, and it's not in Holmes autobiography. How strange!

[Bronson66]

So it's not there, it's not on the video he posted, and it's not in Holmes autobiography. How strange!

How predictable!

[Dr. Z]

You MADE the claim, I'm just asking you to back it up and give us the page number. Is that so difficult? Maybe I wouldn't need to do this if you weren't caught making so many things up. You're asking me how do I know who is and isn't an alt? I pose the same question right back to you. Bronson is a new user account. Now if Ivich was active a Bronson were posting that would be an alternate account. You don't seem to grasp that. As it stands, you have been thoroughly thrashed in this thread.

Um, come agian, Cowboy.

When I left Muhammad Ali in 1975, I knew that I had a 99-?percent chance to be heavyweight champion of the world. I knew it. But I were just waiting for that time to come so that I can show the people that I can become that champion," he says. Ali kicked me out of camps becase I was too fast for him.

There you have it. And Ivich is Bronson, just PM him, okay?

[JAB5239]

Um, come agian, Cowboy.



There you have it. And Ivich is Bronson, just PM him, okay?

Wow, you don't say!! No kidding. I know who Bronson is, but that is a NEW account, not an alt account. Just like if you're still posting in Classic you're using a new account because your Mendoza account is banned.

Oh, and you still haven't given that page number.

[Bronson66]

Wow, you don't say!! No kidding. I know who Bronson is, but that is a NEW account, not an alt account. Just like if you're still posting in Classic you're using a new account because your Mendoza account is banned.

Oh, and you still haven't given that page number.

He isn't posting on Classic.Moderator McGrain has sworn he will never post there again. I've never had an Alt account anywhere.

He won't give the page number because it doesn't exist! Ali firing Holmes was yet another lie he made up!

[Bronson66]

Um, come agian, Cowboy.



There you have it. And Ivich is Bronson, just PM him, okay?

He has PM's me several times and I him.
We know who we are,and we sure know who, and what you are!

[Bronson66]

Larry has the better record under 35.

He beat more contenders in the ring ****zine's top ten*

Holmes had the best all time jab. Like Ali he had a good right cross. Unlike Ali, he had a decent body attack, a left hook, and uppercut! A superior skilled fighter, Larry was. Ali was more limited in attack.

He was not floored by non top ten fighters! Ali was down from them quite a few times . IMO Holmes had a slightly better chin.

Holmes did not rest on the ropes, gas or or punch himself out as an under 40 year old fighter. Ali did.

Ali had major issues with good jabbers ( Jones, Norton, Young, Lyle, Holmes ) at all stages of his career from multiple men. Hmmm, Holmes had a great jab.



But, but, but Ali beat Foreman! Ah yes, Forman ducked Homles in the 70's and 90's. But he fought Jimmy Young. And Young whipped him, and was ROBBED on the official score cards vs Ali. Sub in Holmes for Young and Boxing has a new #1 fighter for sure.

But, but, but, Holmes beat an old Ali. Yes-- he did. Looking at the match Ali did not win one 30 second segment of the nine rounds. Holmes did not want to hurt Ali, but he would have ... Dundee prevented him from being knocked out by TKO or KO. The fight ended with Ali one his stool.

So how is #1? Fan's can clutch at Joe Louis. But putting him aside, the real question is this. What year can Holmes beat Ali? 1980 we know. 1979? yep. 1978? Very likely. 1977? Well Let's say Ali fought Holmes then. Who do you like? I say Larry does a Jimmy Young and ten some on Ali wins a SD with one judges card being suspect for Ali the other two clearly going for Holmes. Holmes via split decision.


Ali kicked Holmes out of his camps in the mid 1970's because Holmes was too fast for him. That is the reason. Those are the facts. Those gym wars happened. Think about that.

So what did Ali do clearly better than Holmes? I'll be fair. READY? Ali was a better clincher in the ring and a much better talker outside of it. And Ali tended to be gifted on the cards, while Holmes wasn't.

So what is your take on this question? I often leanr the most from knowledgeable fans who disagree with me, and give me some words or facts I did not think about.

1.Holmes had the better under 35 record .

A.Under 35 Ali beat Pattersonx2,Liston x2 Terrell,Folley, Cooper,Bugnerx2, Frazier x2,Foreman,Norton
x2,Lyle,Ellis,Young,Quarry x2 Bonavena. Thats far superior to Holmes.


2.He beat more contenders in the ring ****zine's top ten*

A. Ali Beat over 30 Ring top ten ranked men over twice as many as Holmes

3.Holmes had the best all time jab. Like Ali he had a good right cross. Unlike Ali, he had a decent body attack, a left hook, and uppercut! A superior skilled fighter, Larry was. Ali was more limited in attack.

A. Holmes did not have a good left hook.His arsenal was basically, left jab, right cross, and right uppercut.

4. Holmes was not floored by non top ten fighters!

Ali was down from them quite a few times .

A.Holmes was floored by2 non top ten fighters.Isaac and Snipes.Ali by 1 Banks.


5.IMO Holmes had a slightly better chin.

A. Shavers floored a prime Holmes he couldnt floor a past prime Ali.BothAli and Holmes had top chins ,but Holmes never faced Frazier,Liston,Lyle,or Foreman.

.

6.Ali had major issues with good jabbers ( Jones, Norton, Young, Lyle, Holmes ) at all stages of his career from multiple men. Hmmm, Holmes had a great jab.

A.Jones was not a good jabber ,he spent the fight trying to land his right cross.

Ali was past his best for his fights with.Young ,Lyle and totally finished against Holmes. Ali beat some of the best of heavyweight jabbers.Foreman,Liston,Terrell,Bugner ,Cooper, and he stopped Lyle.

Holmes had major problems with Williams jab.

7 Ali kicked Holmes out of his camps in the mid 1970's because Holmes was too fast for him. That is the reason. Those are the facts. Those gym wars happened. Think about that.

A.Holmes left Ali's camp of his own accord and he says so in Facing Ali and in his autobiography.


8. Nowhere in the book Facing Ali does it say Holmes was fired by Ali.


Eight points from you ,easily disproved and without any reply from you!

[Dr. Z]

[QUOTE=Bronson66;n32327312]

1.Holmes had the better under 35 record .

He was one fight away from tying Rocky Marcano's record of 49-0!!! Duh, Ali lost a few times and should have officially lost others at age 35 and under.

In case you have noticed, basically I am basically ignoring your replies. I am wasting too much time with ALTS. Someone else can replace the straw needed for you to drink.