Jack Dempsey against Rocky Marciano

[QueensburyRules]

--- Saskatoon was a rich gold mining town with plenty of high stakes gamblers providing the largess, the way boxing always was.

Back later when I get to a full computer. Yer easy money kid, can't see the forest for counting all the trees.

[travestyny]

--- Saskatoon was a rich gold mining town with plenty of high stakes gamblers providing the largess, the way boxing always was.

Back later when I get to a full computer. Yer easy money kid, can't see the forest for counting all the trees.

Apparently you can't see the facts or questions for all the ducking you've been doing.


Time to get off your knees, Queenie.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Don't duck me, son. Aren't you after the truth? Are you really going to let your statements below just sit out there like that. Well hey, I'm willing to defend Dempsey against your heinous quotations.

Either you accept that challenge, or you bow down and agree that it's Dempsey's accurate quotations and that you made a grave mistake. What's it going to be?

I'm waitinggggggg I'm going to take as big of a dump on you as you did on Dempsey. Matter of fact, after I finish shltting all over you, I'm going to dedicate it to Dempsey for you shltting on his name like that. How's that?

Accept bltch.

Do you think you have me caught in some contradiction or something? You're literally quoting me saying that your **** is fake as if I haven't been saying that this entire time. If you didn't get it the first 100 times I'll say it again.

Your **** is fake. It's a fabrication and I proved that there are tons of fabrications about what Dempsey said all over the internet from respectable newspapers.

Now please, don't embarrass yourself any further. I've already painted your ass red and left you with the taste of my **** in your mouth. Just admit that you don't know **** about Dempsey and never read his autobiography. This conversation has gotten far too annoying for my liking.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

You're the idiot who claimed the quotation from Dempsey is fake. Get ready to be embarrassed and have to live with knowing that you took a big shlt all over Dempsey when I prove it

So this is the part you are referring to.....

“I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro.”

LMAOOOO. Do you see the three dots between that, moron. You're so fvvcking desperate that you're trying to compare that to what I have? You're going to be embarrassed, son. I can't wait!!!!





How about you put your account up. Let's see how much tough talk you're really willing to do.

I'll prove the quotation I gave you from Dempsey is accurate. If I win, I control your sig for 3 months. If I lose, you control mine for 3 months.

We get a mod to agree that if anyone reneges on the challenge, they are permanently banned.


Don't bow down, bltch boy. You agree?

You've surrendered your argument. Dempsey didn't say "I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro" in his autobiography. I have the damn book. I've read it cover to cover twice and skimmed it while looking for information on certain topics about a hundred times.

Not even lysol will get the taste of my **** out of your mouth at this point.

[BattlingNelson]

You've surrendered your argument. Dempsey didn't say "I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro" in his autobiography. I have the damn book. I've read it cover to cover twice and skimmed it while looking for information on certain topics about a hundred times.

Not even lysol will get the taste of my **** out of your mouth at this point.

So the part of where Dempsey says he'd never fight Wills... because he was a negro' was not in his autobiography, but in numerous other sources? Is that where this argument stands now?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

So the part of where Dempsey says he'd never fight Wills... because he was a negro' was not in his autobiography, but in numerous other sources? Is that where this argument stands now?

I posted a source from a newspaper that claims Dempsey said something but proved it was entirely false as a precedent for this guys other outlandish sources possibly being false because he thinks just because it was printed in a newspaper that it is automatically true.

[QueensburyRules]

--- Teensy, I’m gonna put everything in summary chronological order.

Dempsey a hot shot fighter out of the Utah territories and Colorado comes to NYC with his manager via train as passengers to drum up some fights and make bigger money. Immediately the local conman targets the two young hayseeds and manufactures a telegram from back home about a family emergency, so his manager returns home with Dempsey promised a fight by the conman. Dempsey doesn’t have a dime to his name but expecting to get paid fights the 6-5 Andre Anderson and whoops him, but doesn’t get paid. So he’s sleeping on a park bench standing in a soup line waiting for his pay and next fight. He fights heavy contender John Lester Johnson to a draw, a really tough fight he got his ribs busted up early, and still no pay forthcoming, but the conman tells him to fight Sam Langford who was still on a tear, literally the best heavy in the world, but now Jack knows this is a big city con, so screw this NYC fight biz and rides the rails out of town, ends up under Doc Kearns who brilliantly brings him along. He’s still poor, but can at least afford groceries and a roof to live under and things are looking up. Doc takes him east and he’s cleaning out the division. Does a charity benefit to promote the impending Willard fight, but the agreed up fighter has been paid to vacate the premises so Joe Jeannette can take his place.

Now Joe was on his last legs as a fighter and has no chance to fight Willard who ain’t been fighting anyone. Why is that? Well, the fight biz being crooked and still illegal in many jurisdictions, he can make more money putting on his wild west shows and sparring exhibitions like many previous champs did using vaudeville. Guaranteed gigs with guaranteed pay more than boxing. Kearns knows Joe won’t just go through the motions, and for the short duration of the exhibition could stink up the place to make Jack look bad, so he protects his investment by walking out of the fight. Any manager worth anything would do the same, not a duck, and note, Jack repeatedly says he’ll fight anyone Kearns puts in front of him.

Jack wins the title and proffers the usual won’t defend against black fighters, and why is that? His promoter, Tex Rickard promoted the two biggest fights of the 20th century thus far with Black vs White fighters, but they weren’t promoted that way but rather as the top champions battling each other in Nelson vs Gans and Johnson vs Jeffries. That fight turned tragic as we know and dragged down boxing even further from the mainstream it had been seeking. That began the No Decision era for any fight that went the distance to discourage ********, so newspapermen used their consensus to score fights to keep public interest alive. Then Dempsey comes along holding the first round KO record knocking out guys like swatting flies, and suddenly the world is electrified. No way Rickard is gonna risk another national race riot, so voila, even if Dempsey wants to fight a black fighter, the only guy who could pull it off don’t want it. Dempsey fills out his training camp with young black heavies and it’s manna raining from the heavens for all.

Reporters are a rather ****** lot mostly, and they all ask the same questions that get irritating to have to give the same answer. Sam half blind now and ain’t the terror he used to be, but needs the payday. Nobody is asking for Sam, nor Joe who’s been long retired by now, the press want Wills, so Jack mouths the same “won’t defend against black fighters” ad infinitum, but of course he’s talking about it with his sparring partners and gets plenty of encouragement. He’s still not making much money, but local beauty gets her hooks in him, and now he’s married and at odds with Kearns who doesn’t want to have to deal with a married fighter. Jack knows Wills would be a big fight worth bukos of money and other promoters are starting to make offers. He signs twice, maybe even thrice, but never gets his guarantee because the finances and politics weren’t available to make a fight that might cause another national race riot. That is where your supposed broken contract dialogue came from. Kearns is also suing him, the conman from NYC has been suing him ever since he won the title, so Jack says screw this, so he and his now happily married wife move out to Hollywood so they can do movies. He takes his buddy big Bill Tate along as friend and sparmate in anticipation of Wills coming to fruition, and immediately catches flak from the community who object a black living in their neighborhood. So, since the money begins immediately flowing in, Jack can afford to officially make him his chauffeur which would’ve been a very prestigious position for anyone and still is even today. Jack could afford the swanky new models and with the beaming Bill Tate driving, it was like living in hog heaven for these two po’ boys.

Rickard is getting frustrated reading about all the Wills fights falling through as the political climate improves, so he offers Wills an eliminator against Gene Tunney good money with the winner getting Dempsey for even bigger money. Maybe Wills was feeling his years when he turned down the offer to go and get beat by Sharkey who Jack fought in another eliminator after losing the first Tunney fight. Wills was no longer relevant and Jack soon retired. There’s several autobios out where he now doubt says a lot of different things. When he made the Langford quote of being scared, that’s when he was sleeping on a park bench standing in soup lines with no hope of a payday. Jack was always gracious with fighters and wanted people to know how much respect he had for him.

Context son, or you will struggle terribly in life. The slop that Sam never won a world title is the kind of thing you read in books, but point if fact he fought Jeannette in Paris circa 1913 and a terrific fight for Sam, and not so terrific for Joe. The French federation has stripped Johnson of the world title after his Battling Johnson defense travesty and awarded it to Sam, who sadly went back to America and never defended it, why? Maybe it's in Moyles' book.

Dempsey was quite popular with Louis and Ali because he was an advanced man of his generation, something that escapes you obviously. He gave up 3 years of his life, ditched his manager and promoter trying to get Wills made and no matter how many times a day you may get yer diapers changed, you’re not fit to even talk about him. You have not added anything new to the dialogue from my perspective, but what you are excellent at is taking everything out of context and asking what lawyers term leading questions that are routinely thrown out of court. Now, when did you stop beating your girl?

[travestyny]

Do you think you have me caught in some contradiction or something? You're literally quoting me saying that your **** is fake as if I haven't been saying that this entire time. If you didn't get it the first 100 times I'll say it again.

Your **** is fake. It's a fabrication and I proved that there are tons of fabrications about what Dempsey said all over the internet from respectable newspapers.

Now please, don't embarrass yourself any further. I've already painted your ass red and left you with the taste of my **** in your mouth. Just admit that you don't know **** about Dempsey and never read his autobiography. This conversation has gotten far too annoying for my liking.

Tough words from a bltch who won’t put his sig or account up.

Accept f@g, and let’s see what’s up.

Second time asking. Stop ducking bltch. Then you can cry about “the taste of my dlck in your Mouth.”

Do you agree? Second time!

[travestyny]

You've surrendered your argument. Dempsey didn't say "I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro" in his autobiography. I have the damn book. I've read it cover to cover twice and skimmed it while looking for information on certain topics about a hundred times.

Not even lysol will get the taste of my **** out of your mouth at this point.

1. The quotation you gave didn’t say that you illiterate bltch. It said the first quotation was from his biography, which I pointed out.

2. If the quotation also meant the other part was from his autobiography, that could be due to the ellipsis used in the quote. No one knows how much could be between that.

3. That’s your deflection about the quotation I provided, and now you went pvssy about that challenge about me proving it

This is the third time I’m asking. I’m going to embarrass you. You mouth signed a check that your ass can’t cash. Let’s see if you talk tough after I prove my quotation is legit.

ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE BlTCH! Third time asking. What’s wrong? You balls haven’t descended yet, Junior?

[travestyny]

So the part of where Dempsey says he'd never fight Wills... because he was a negro' was not in his autobiography, but in numerous other sources? Is that where this argument stands now?

Not at all. The argument is about a quotation that I provided from a book. Also pointed out to him that his quotation makes it clear that the FIRST part is from the autobiography. It never explicitly says that the "because he was a negro" part was a part of the autobiography, and the use of the ellipsis is shady, which could probably mean it came from just about any book written regarding Dempsey at that time.

Somehow he thinks that will serve as his proof that the quotation I provided is false. I hope he can do better than that to serve as proof that my quotation is a fabrication. I've posted it again below.

I posted a source from a newspaper that claims Dempsey said something but proved it was entirely false as a precedent for this guys other outlandish sources possibly being false because he thinks just because it was printed in a newspaper that it is automatically true.

You're absolutely lying Entirely false???


There were two parts of the quotation you posted.

Dempsey never claimed otherwise. “He was gypped out of his crack at the title,” Dempsey wrote in his autobiography. There was a reason. “I never fought Wills … because he was a Negro.”

As I said, it clearly seems that the quotation is saying "He was gypped out of his crack at that title..." is from the autobiography. Clearly. There are at least three other sources that have also said that's in the autobiography. Whether it was edited out in later version, I do not know. But it would be odd for other sources to say the same if it had never appeared in any of the editions.

I never made any argument about the quotation following it. If it meant that part is from the autobiography, then they are probably using the ellipsis to fit their agenda.

You trying to use that to somehow justify that this is a false quotation is laughable

Let's see who can prove this is legit. Do you accept the challenge. Fourth time I'm asking. Let's see who has the bigger proof regarding whether this is true or not. Deal?